Ghost's

Started by sjefen, May 22, 2008, 08:06:27 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

Do you belive in ghost's?

Yes. I have even seen one
Yes, but I've never seen any
No. I'll believe when I see one
No. It's just bullshit
I'm not sure what to believe

sjefen

I think this is really interesting and saw a topic like this in another forum and want to know what you guys think.

There are many strange videos and photographs out there that really makes me think.
It's fascinating and scary at the same time. I mean... I can't stop investigating. I'm always looking for
some real proof, but I'm sure if I'm ever going to experience the real deal, I will shit my panties.

I voted option 3. I'll believe when I see one. Still.... I am almost certain they exist :)

I was also wondering..... a long time ago I saw a video on youtube about ghost's. I think it was a british program
and it was about 40 - 45min long compound of many different happenings caught on tape. I can't find this video
any more. If some of you find it could you please post the link here?
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/royalt

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
32,0 GB RAM
GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Cyber-Angel

There are some definitions that need to be brought to people attention in the discussion of paranormal phenomena at that is the difference between a classical haunting and that of poltergeist intrusion.

Classical Haunting:

This phenomena is a associated with a vary traumatic event such as a murder or other sudden death phenomena where the person in question died before their time and they had no time to do all the things they wanted in their lives; this causes their life's force (Soul if you will) great pain and they wish to complete what ever business it was they had before they are ready to move on.

There have been instances in the paranormal literature where the haunting has proved to be genuine where things have gotten so bad that people living in the place where the Haunting is, that they been forced to move away. In these cases the pain of the ghost is so bad, that it has turned in on its self and become malevolent and dangerous that it takes its pain out on the living, in some case actuality causing physical harm.

Classical Hauntings are usually long term phenomena lasting years, or even centuries and are not easily resolved. There have been instances over the centuries of having a location where there is a haunting blessed by a Catholic Priest or in extreme cases having the right of exorcism performed (Normally carried out on an individual where it is confirmed that demonic possession has taken place, and the Priest may only carry out the right if given permission to do so by his Bishop, as exorcism is extremely dangerous and has been known, on occasion to kill) and making the situation far worse.

Poltergeist:

Poltergeist phenomena (Genuine ones) compeered to that of the classical haunting are normally short lived phenomena though there are well documented cases which have lasted a century or more: they are normally persons who died but got lost on the way to the next plain of existence, and are stuck between this world and the next.

Poltergeist activity can range in severity form the mildly annoying (Moving a vase to a different location) right up to extremes of violence, weather these be aimed at a single person to a family with recorded cases of deaths.

Some Poltergeist phenomena are the result of a person who lead a full life but whom wants more, and so greedy for more life do they become that they cannot except the fact that they've died and so the wonder around causing mischief.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

The above is a greatly simplified version of both phenomena I hope it helps. I have seen a Ghost many years ago and her story goes like this.

In the UK during the First World War there where many Military Hospitals built to deal with the many wounded service personal brought back form the front; at this Hospital in question a nurse develops a deep relationship with one of the wounded officers there. At first it seemed that this officer was going to pull through, but unexpected complications set in and he died, in the grounds of the hospital there is a chapel (This is still there) the nurse in question was so deeply affected by the death of this officer she'd formed a relationship with that she jumped to her death form the bell tower of the chapel.

I only saw her briefly but when I did she was walking towards part of the ground under the chapel bell tower (Where she lay when she died most likely and then vanished).

Regard to you.

Cyber-Angel                               
                 

JimB

May 23, 2008, 03:34:35 am #2 Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 03:36:35 am by JimB
Nobody can really deny that when someone sees a ghost they really see it. The problem is, what we see is simply what our brain tells us we're seeing or interprets it, but that don't make the thing physically real in any way at all. Ask a schizophrenic about the things they see and hear and there's nothing vague or sketchy about it, nothing like our 'inner voice' - it's utterly real to them as if the voice or person is external and physical, and recently doctors are re-thinking their attitude to how a shizophrenic perceives these hallucinations. I'm not saying you're a shizophrenic if you see a ghost! BUT, if they can experience the phenomenon all the time or occasionally, why can't someone without the condition experience something similar once in their lives? The mind is clearly capable of doing it, as in a vivid hallucination.

Add to that the memory of the incident, and how that can be distorted.

It's all in the head IMHO, but may as well be real to all intents and purposes from the subjective viewpoint of the individuals and even groups who experience the phenomenon. I get sleep paralysis from time to time, and anyone with that condition knows it explains grey aliens, the old hag, etc, etc, perfectly. As physical as the sensations and visions may be I know they're not real, but that don't make it a fun experience  ;)
Some bits and bobs
The Galileo Fallacy, 'Argumentum ad Galileus':
"They laughed at Galileo. They're laughing at me. Therefore I am the next Galileo."

Nope. Galileo was right for the simpler reason that he was right.

Inscrutable

I haven't ever seen a ghost, but I'm honestly convinced that I felt one just last year.

I was on an away-day with work and went to Loseley Park (it's an old manor house in Surrey, UK for those who haven't heard of it - i.e. most of you).  The house dates form 1562 and is reputedly haunted (aparently there's one particular ghose that none of the staff will willingly talk about because it's somewhat "nasty").  Anyway, my experience didn't happen in the house itself but in what's known as the Tithe Barn which dates from the 17th Century.

The majority of the day took place in the barn and it was during one of the breaks, when I was talking with some of my colleagues, that I felt someone brush the back of my neck.  The touch was quite forceful - so not a breeze or an insect landing or anything like that.  I turned instantly, but the nearest person behind me was about 3-4 meters away and engaged in conversation.  So, very weird.  Not scary, just weird.  

I have to say that I'm actually something of a sceptic on these things usually - most ghost stories are pure hokum (including, I believe the story of the "nasty" ghost I refer to above) but this certainly threw me, and although a logical person and prone to think things through again and agin until I find an answer, I just can't find one that fits with the circumstances of that day.

Inscrutable

Cyber-Angel

They say there is a phenomena associated with strong magnetic fields like those generated by high voltage power lines that if at the right levels can induce visual phenomena in the subject: how ever there are at the sight in question no such over head power cables or any other source of magnetic fields, I know enough about both paranormal research and the field of parapsychology to say that.

There are many ghosts that turn to have other explanations, however in a few cases that are well researched and documented by more than one research team there are those genuine cases that are real hauntings that can not be explained any other way: some would say that it is impossible to categorize paranormal phenomena; my answer to these people is that some thing is only perceived as impossible because at that time no one knew the right questions to ask, questions that could be investigated and answered by experimentation and the rigors of the scientific method.

We should be mindful that there are phenomena out there that we do not understand and may never do, however we should try and be open to the fact that they are there;  in time we may understand them and by so doing come to a deeper understanding of or selfs and our place in the universe of which we are apart.

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel       

rcallicotte

What's in our head and what's in another - this is an argument that is quickly dispelled, when more than three or four people witness the same inexplicable event at the same time.  This I know has happened.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

sjefen

Quote from: JimB on May 23, 2008, 03:34:35 amThe problem is, what we see is simply what our brain tells us we're seeing or interprets it, but that don't make the thing physically real in any way at all.


Then what the hell is real? ::)
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/royalt

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
32,0 GB RAM
GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Xpleet

May 23, 2008, 09:30:35 pm #7 Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 09:36:09 pm by Xpleet
Ghosts are real.


But first the definition "Ghost" must be elaborated well.

A ghost is an apparition or an energy of someone or something that can be seen in the physical realm by physical vision.

Ghosts can be disembodied people or beings that were never in a physical body at all or simply residual energies.

The most common appearance of ghosts are disembodied spirits.

When people die a natural way, their spirit consciousness leaves the physical body and enters the dimension that is known since ancient times and termed the "Astral World". This could be seen today as the 4th dimension and is one of the closest to the physical dimension.

But if a person dies in a sudden way such as an accident, it is possible that the person is "stuck" between the physical and the Astral world (4th dimension).
Such people often relate to their homes. Unfortunately the so called "lost souls" often do not even know that they are dead. They are still haunting their physical locations as they are drawn to persons or objects they related to in their lives. And if new people enter the homes that the dead still haunt, then often the dead are going crazy, throwing stuff or annoying the new people because they still think of it as THEIR homes.

In the astral dimensions, thoughts are manifesting into matter. Therefore, people who have died and who are entering the astral dimensions are initially taking a human form just how they expect themselves to look like. They can have a horrible looking astral body of themselves if they're depressed. Many though are looking like in their 20s because they like the way they looked at this age the most.

The Astral dimension and the physical dimension can overlap in a sense that disembodied spirits can appear as a apparition in the physical realm but in their astral body.
This is the reason why many "ghost" appearances are human looking.

Why are so called "demons" looking so scary? Because they like to come close to the third dimension and dress their astral body up to look like Zorro with red eyes or whatever so they can spook people.


Once the cover is blown the fear is gone. There is nothing scary about ghosts only the media is promoting it this way.
Ghosts are in no way higher beings or higher evolved beings, they're just people without a physical body(vehicle) in the closest dimension to the physical "third" dimension.


JimB

Quote from: Inscrutable on May 23, 2008, 03:37:09 am
I haven't ever seen a ghost, but I'm honestly convinced that I felt one just last year.

Quote from: sjefen on May 23, 2008, 03:08:22 pm
Then what the hell is real? ::)


Read this: http://theshadowlands.net/ghost/sleep.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

Like I said, I've experienced this a lot in my life (it doesn't mean I'm a nutter BTW!). You have to understand that it's not just visual; you see things, hear things and really physically feel things. It's truly scary if you don't know what's going on. What's real? Whatever your mind interprets as real is what's real.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3044607.stm

Until a ghost is caught then sorry, no way they physically exist IMHO  ;) The mind is a brilliant thing, and it'll put all manner of things around you if the circumstances are right. As for group sightings of the paranormal, all people are recounting is their memory of an incident. Again, that's completely unreliable in many circumstances as many a lawyer, cop, judge and jury can testify to.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Yh-whOSPKSwC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=reality+explanation&source=web&ots=mChN0BTE50&sig=kJvhbj2TTUc8ajAafu0eeBwsJzE&hl=en
Some bits and bobs
The Galileo Fallacy, 'Argumentum ad Galileus':
"They laughed at Galileo. They're laughing at me. Therefore I am the next Galileo."

Nope. Galileo was right for the simpler reason that he was right.

sjefen

Quote from: JimB on May 24, 2008, 05:13:51 amThe mind is a brilliant thing, and it'll put all manner of things around you if the circumstances are right.


This is going to be a little bit of topic, but I just want to say I once saw a documentary about the brain. It was interesting and all, but there was this one thing really got me worried. They said that the brain is not really aware of it's own existence. What the hell does that mean? Who am I? What happens when it becomes aware? Will it take control of me (whoever that might be) and my body and do stuff I don't want to do?
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/royalt

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
32,0 GB RAM
GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Xpleet

Quote from: sjefen on May 24, 2008, 11:04:27 am
Quote from: JimB on May 24, 2008, 05:13:51 amThe mind is a brilliant thing, and it'll put all manner of things around you if the circumstances are right.


This is going to be a little bit of topic, but I just want to say I once saw a documentary about the brain. It was interesting and all, but there was this one thing really got me worried. They said that the brain is not really aware of it's own existence. What the hell does that mean? Who am I? What happens when it becomes aware? Will it take control of me (whoever that might be) and my body and do stuff I don't want to do?



We are spirit consciousness, the consciousness is immortal and forever. If you die your consciousness passes on to the next dimension.

The brain is a superimposition over your consciousness.

The brain takes control over your conscious actions if you are not self aware. It is like a computer. Fully programable and it takes action over if you let it.

By the way memories are not saved in your brain first place. Your spirit consciousness holds them too and the brain has only an imprint of them.

latego

Quote from: sjefen on May 24, 2008, 11:04:27 am
This is going to be a little bit of topic, but I just want to say I once saw a documentary about the brain. It was interesting and all, but there was this one thing really got me worried. They said that the brain is not really aware of it's own existence. What the hell does that mean? Who am I? What happens when it becomes aware? Will it take control of me (whoever that might be) and my body and do stuff I don't want to do?


I am sure that everybody here around consider gravity real. Who hasn't falled down and hurt him/herself?

Well, you might have a look at the work of Juan Martín Maldacena (not a crank, he is a professor at the Princeton Institute for Advanced Studies). A simple summary, from Scientific American, can be found at http://www.sns.ias.edu/~malda/illusiongravity.pdf. Would you believe that gravity might be just an illusion?

B.T.W., oriental philsophy has from millenia the concept of Maya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion) and in those places, the idea that everything we consider "real" is just an illusion does not raise brows.

Bye!!!

lightning

my dads a bioligist and chemist and my grandads a astrophysicist
so everything in my house has to have an equation or logical explanation to it ::)

I personally have mixed thoughts about ghosts I am an atheist so i don't believe in god or any afterlife  whatsoever but then i have seen some strange things that i don't think are natural

Seth

Quote from: lightning on May 25, 2008, 02:06:56 am
my dads a bioligist and chemist and my grandads a astrophysicist
so everything in my house has to have an equation or logical explanation to it ::)




ask them to explain us hazard, the creation of life, and why relativity and quantics laws are not compatible ;)

JimB

Quote from: seth93 on May 25, 2008, 04:11:11 am
Quote from: lightning on May 25, 2008, 02:06:56 am
my dads a bioligist and chemist and my grandads a astrophysicist
so everything in my house has to have an equation or logical explanation to it ::)




ask them to explain us hazard, the creation of life, and why relativity and quantics laws are not compatible ;)


The fact that scientists don't know everything doesn't mean they know nothing.

The creation of life? http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/

Similarly, ask a creationist to find the following examples in any species:
A complex organ for which no simpler versions ever existed.
A feature which exists solely for the benefit of another species, with no benefit whatsoever to the host species.
Different biochemistry (eg- different base nucleotides) than the rest of the biosystem.
A feature which leaps from one branch of the evolutionary tree to another.

;)
Some bits and bobs
The Galileo Fallacy, 'Argumentum ad Galileus':
"They laughed at Galileo. They're laughing at me. Therefore I am the next Galileo."

Nope. Galileo was right for the simpler reason that he was right.