Functions...Arrrrgh

[Oshyan]

Actually at present the documentation is not open for generalized editing. Part of the reason for that is that, unlike a true Wiki, this forum-based implementation (while nicely integrated with the discussion areas) does not have versioning and some other important features for a multi-user environment. So if someone goes in to edit an entry and their edits turn out not to be appropriate, there is no way to revert to a previous version. I think a proper Wiki is an important system to make available but it's undecided yet whether that would be the best place to keep the official documentation. We do intend to provide a basic reference for all the nodes and to complete the existing documentation of the various areas of Terragen 2 (terrain, atmosphere, lighting, etc.).

- Oshyan

[rcallicotte]

So...we're back to the book idea.   

[bobbystahr]

Well a .pdf collection, maybe a series of collections dealing with different subjects. Some for absolute newbies which could incorperate existing materials online ie: elementary surfacing with procedural and image map methods explained point by point. Another one could be a simple glossary of the terms used in layman's language. Another dealing with Atmosphere and Clouds. Etc.. I realize most of this is already covered but it would, at least for me, be very handy to have an off line reference without having to do a search of the forum and sometimes forgetting what my question was in the process, heh heh heh, but maybe that's just me as well.. ...

[rcallicotte]

Something like this would be good, Bobby.  I have plenty of tutorials I've copied into a Word document and it would be no difficult task to copy it into a document, format it as PDF and publish it. 

Like I said, though, I'm not volunteering.  My point in this case is that a lot of the information is already here for something elementary like this. 

Nevertheless, I'm thinking someday a book on A-Z TG2 will come out to fill a void.  Of course, maybe I'm getting the wagon in front of the horse.  To a release - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4286.0

[DeathTwister]

Personaly I think a book idea is very good and important, but I like Bobbies idea as well and both should be in place, weather you are a newbie or a vet, we all need that info and I get tired of trying to remember where I saw something I needed and could not find it as to many links on this website and my own data base is over 5 Terrabits and OMG ever try and find weired stuff in that kind of volume?.  So a book is very good idea /smiles.....I bought the 3D Game studio Engine and the firsdt thing I did was go to Amazon and buy all the books on it that I could to stuff it in my head better and faster.  As I can take books with me to study from doctors Apts, to going on a nice bike ride to the beach and settling down and have a good read to get off the computers and take a brake.
/cheers

[Oshyan]

We will be providing the final documentation in an offline-readable and printable format like PDF.

- Oshyan

[bobbystahr]

Oh...now that will be nice...in more difficult things I often will print out a few pages now and again just to pour over them as DT seems to like to do.. ...

[arisdemos]

Because I am using the free version of TG2 I am more or less forced to reach out for any available work around to over come the limits of my try out program, and the procedural/function option appears as a possible method to create simulated  none-tgo objects and also is a given help with geometry generated formula for certain ground textures like sand ripples.

JimB has suggested in another thread that a repository of function related clip files could be created. I would like to see such an archive of TG2 math function resource files put together in conjunction with a short tutorial on the implimentation of these conditional modifiers, and of couse as suggested in this thread written in a short and fairly simple/easy to understand form.

[jo]

Hi,

in conjunction with a short tutorial on the implimentation of these conditional modifiers, and of couse as suggested in this thread written in a short and fairly simple/easy to understand form.

Have you read the documentation for the conditional node in the Node Reference?

Regards,

Jo

[mhaze]

It would help me if there was a text readout of the values of the node when I click on the node in the editor. It would help both understanding and debugging

Mick

[arisdemos]

Hi Jo: I have read the conditional syntax definitions in the documentation section as well as your related comments in this thread. Is the function of the scalar and bolean nodes to sequentially feed the computer/program a set of solution related theoroms? Are the returned yes, no, and null answers to these questions intended to combine and ultimately yield the required scalars, vectors, variables and constants that will describe the color, geometry, and 3 dimentional logic of the graphic image?

I remember a time befor the HP hand held computer when we did compound trig functions by hand to obtain locations for structural steel connections, and it was hell to spend ones day in a mountain of paper. Then came those little canned programs on a strip of tape that you just plugged in the values and that math jungle suddenly was swept away, and what a relief it was!. To me the solution that I see described in that fellow's tutorial on sand ripples is something that could be given like a tgo but in a clip file, and then I could more easily move on to other problems like getting those ripples into certain defined locations within my graphic geography.

I am mainly suggesting that an archive of TG2 primative shapes such as a cone, a torus, or even possibly some useful curved flat sheets sections  be made available in clip file form along with a placement description of setting up all the required nodes to get the shapes/colors on site via masks, displacement, ect. within a default plane of my tgd. I am perhaps shooting in the dark here, but I would like to see TG2 grow into a more useful artistic tool without getting a math induced brain freeze by having to keep track of a mountain of trig functions and the zillions of ones and zeroes in the conditional calculus. Then maybe I can make a picture of mount Fujiama blowing cute little smoke rings.

[schmeerlap]

Arisdemos suggests the ideal compromise, in my opinion.

The final (commercial) version of T2 should include a  library of modules (supplementary shaders, clip files) which the general user can easily insert to provide some functional enhancement to the scene such as cracked sun-baked mud or wavy sand forms. Each module will ideally have simple controls to vary its basic parameters (such as scale), but the complex network of functions that combine to give the desired effect is hidden from the user. For those who want to tweak the contributing functions, there should be an option to access them.

The inclusion of such a library of modules (which will hopefully grow as those users who enjoy building function networks add to them) would, I believe, make the functional intricacies of T2 more accessible to many more users and go a long way towards making it a more popular 3d landscaping program.

ps: the number of readings this thread has had attests to the demand for some solution like the above to be acted upon.

[jo]

Hi Mick,

It would help me if there was a text readout of the values of the node when I click on the node in the editor. It would help both understanding and debugging

There is a new node in TP4 called the Notifier node, which can be found in the Debug submenu of the Functions menu, which is just for this. I'm still working on the documentation for it though, should have that ready in the next day or two. Basically, it can display values which are flowing through the network, or notify when some condition is met.

Regards,

Jo

[jo]

Hi,

I'll try and get to the first part of your question tomorrow, but I can answer the following now.

I am mainly suggesting that an archive of TG2 primative shapes such as a cone, a torus, or even possibly some useful curved flat sheets sections  be made available in clip file form along with a placement description of setting up all the required nodes to get the shapes/colors on site via masks, displacement, ect. within a default plane of my tgd. I am perhaps shooting in the dark here, but I would like to see TG2 grow into a more useful artistic tool without getting a math induced brain freeze by having to keep track of a mountain of trig functions and the zillions of ones and zeroes in the conditional calculus. Then maybe I can make a picture of mount Fujiama blowing cute little smoke rings.

As part of what Oshyan was saying about not needing to use functions to do a lot of stuff in TG2, you could already create the scene you're talking about without using functions in a much more "artistic" way. Draw Fuji-san in a paint app as a greyscale heightmap, 16 bit if you've got tools which can handle that. Draw greyscale masks for your cute little smoke rings. Import it all into TG2 using the appropriate nodes, and away you go. You can use TG2s displacement capabilities via surface layers and such to add extra detail to the heightfield so it doesn't look so much like a heightfield. I just had a quick go at using a ring image map to control clouds just like this thread was about using functions, and it only took me a few minutes to get the same sort of results, entirely through using an image map created in Photoshop to control the coverage of a cloud layer. You don't need to use functions in this case.

Regards,

Jo

[bobbystahr]

"I just had a quick go at using a ring image map to control clouds"

Now there's an idea...I'd love to see the network for this, and what mapping you used for the rings, etc. Had a play with an idea like this a while back but was met with resounding failure so I retreated ....but the interest remains.. ...