Searching for tropical forest trees

[gregsandor]

Hi all,
I'm setting up a scene of Guatemala.   Does anyone know where I can find the trees described http://www.tikalpark.com/trees.htm

Ceiba or Yaaxché in Mayan
Ceiba pentandra
Familiy: Bombacaceae

Sapodilla Tree (Chico Zapote)
Manilkara zapota
Family: Sapotaceae

Mahogany
Swietenia macrophylla
Family: Meliaceae

Cedar
Cedrela odorata
Family: Meliaceae

Matilisguate
Tabebuia rosea
Family: Bignoniaceae

Ramon
Brosimium alicastrum
Family: Moraceae

Hormigo
Platymicium dimorphandrum
Family: Papilionaceae

Santa Maria
Callophylum brasilensis
Family: Guttiferae

Guarumo
Cecropia Peltata
Family: Moraceae

Copal
Cupania belizensis
Family: Sapindaceae

Cojon
Stemmadenia donnel smitii
Family: Apocynaceae

Escobo
Cryosophila argentea
Family:  Barlett

All Spice
Pimenta dioica
Family: Myrtaceae

[bobbystahr]

Short of XFROG having a zone specific package for this area I'm thinking you're gonna have to use an app like abaro[sp?] and build them yourself. I have done extensive searching of Veg online and these are types I have never seen. You might be able to adapt some Vue stuff[I use the PLE and it exports fine]and export as a .3ds file which allows for saving col/bump/alpha maps as well as geometry. If you need to fill an area densely with different trees you might be able to fake it this way. In Vue there's a button that allows the saving out of the image maps used [somewhere above the object tree I think] so you could also create new maps in line with the leaf/floral image references you have of the Guatemalan flora. Hope this has been some help.. ...

[mr-miley]

gregsandor,

I have the xfrog Tropical set and I'm sorry to say, none of the trees / plants you want are in it.

It does contain :-

Anacardium_occidentale_Cashew
Archontophoenix_alexandrae_King_Palm
Artocarpus_altilis_Breadfruit_Tree
Carica_papaya_Papaya
Chamaerops_humilis_Mediterranean_Fan_Palm
Citrus_sinensis_Sweet_Orange_Tree
Coffea_arabica_Coffee_Tree
Eucalyptus_globulus_Bluegum_Eucalyptus
Ficus_elastica_Rubber_Tree
Macadamia_integrifolia_Macadamia
Mangifera_indica_Mango_Tree
Musa_x_paradisiaca_Banana
Persea_americana_Avocado
Phoenix_canariensis_Canary_Date_Palm
Psidium_littorale_Strawberry_Guava
Sabal_palmetto_Palmetto
Saccharum_officinarum_Sugar_Cane
Syagrus_romanzoffiana_Queen_Palm
Trachycarpus_fortunei_Chinese_Windmill_Palm

If any of these are any use to you email or PM me and I'll TGO them for you (as long as te ones you want arent the ones where each leaf comes out as a separate material / group, leading to OBJs with hundreds of groups / materials)

Miles

[Matt]

Hi Mr Miley,

If these are from the Xfrog Plants DVDs, I should remind you that it would be against the terms of your Xfrog Plants license to redistribute them to another person.

Matt

[mr-miley]

Matt

Good point. 2 things... I quote from the usage.html file "The Contents of this Disk may not be resold, re-distributed, or reproduced in any format." Legally this means that you can't do anything with the contents of the disk that will be seen by anyone else but you, because if you incorporate any xfrog products in a render you are guilty of distributing the content of the disk "IN ANY FORMAT" which, I would hazard a guess, makes it not fit for purpose under the sale of goods act (here in the UK at least) and also means that half the renders posted on this site are shown illegally so I do hope you are on your way to the police station to hand yourself in, as I type this 

2ndly, having exported the model from xfrog as an OBJ, loaded it into poseray, applied MY OWN texture and transparency maps, exported it from poseray, imported it into Terragen, reassigned all the maps, added translucency specularity etc and the changed format to a TGO, I would be quite sure that it contains enough of my own work to be a "work based on", and therefore not covered by the xfrog agreement. Mind you, you are getting into a very grey legal area even for copyright specialists.

I do note with interest that no one from Planetside has minded about the other 100 or so models that have come from xfrog, that have been distributed via this forum as TGO files?

Miles

[gregsandor]

mr-miley I appreciate the spirit in which you offer, but cannot accept.  It doesn't matter how much you do to the models you cannot distribute them.

Since you're an expert with converting XFrog models, why not take the next step and learn to model them yourself, then you can do anything you like with them.  You have the skills -  For your first project you could model some of the jungle trees I listed in the first post!

[mr-miley]

gregsandor

No problem.  My offer still stands though. If you are interested in any of the listed above trees let me know and I'll rejig them in xfrog (eg. redistribute leaves and branches, change the trunk size etc) therefore making them NOT the model as distributed on the DVD and therefore NOT covered by the copyright agreement (as it only refers to the content of the DVD, not derivatives, they should have thought of that, as the agreement ONLY refers to the content of the disk) . I'll TGO them with my own textures etc. I have created my own trees before, but if you are looking for something specific that already exists why should I reinvent the wheel, just cause they have a copyright agreement that is rather stupid in that it means you can't use the content you paid for for anything that anyone else is going to see? I can also post the PDF documentation (that IS redistributable) so you can see that I have actually modified them from the original content.

Miles

[gregsandor]

It is theft.  I'm not interested.

If anyone has links to jungle flora please post them.

[lightning]

it is still ilegal you are using the original meshes from the xfrog company even though you may change the textures and format as much as you want you still are essentially stealing from greenworks.
a lot and time and effort has gone into the xfrog stock models if you have used xfrog before not just for ripping xfrog models created by greenworks but to actually model trees from scratch you will realize how hard it is.
would you like someone if you had model for sale just converting your model you spent countless hours designing then applying a different texture then giving it away for free? i know i wouldn't

[Oshyan]

I do note with interest that no one from Planetside has minded about the other 100 or so models that have come from xfrog, that have been distributed via this forum as TGO files?
Miles

As far as I have seen the models posted here are original works created by talented members of the forums like Lightning (or are freely available anyway, like the Xfrog free models). If you're aware of copyrighted works being posted illegally here please let us know.

- Oshyan

[mr-miley]

Lightning
I quote AGAIN from the usage.html file "The Contents of this Disk may not be resold, re-distributed, or reproduced in any format." The operative words are THE CONTENTS OF THE DISK. Once you have changed the models by editing the XFR files and exporting, the models cease to be THE CONTENTS OF THE DISK. If you ran the original and the new through a file comparison utility they would show up as different files. Its not my fault that Greenworks have a rather explicitly worded licence that does not mention models derived from their own models. Their legal department should get their act together. You read any non-royalty free resource licence agreement and it will state that you are not alowed to redistribute the content or dirrivatives thereof. You may say I am being picky, and maybe I am, but we are talking legal licencing agreements here.... letter of the law and all that!

Oshyan
The models maybe... though I would have to go through and compare preview renders to the xfrog renders to be sure, but what about the number of renders over the last few years that have the description containing the words "the trees are the xfrog ###### tree"
Again I quote from the usage.html file "The Contents of this Disk may not be resold, re-distributed, or reproduced in any format."
If you produce a render containing a model from one of the disks you are reproducing the content of the disk in a render. The fact that it is no longer a model but a 2d representation of it doesn't matter. With a good lawyer, Greenworks could sue anyone who has ever used any of their conten for anything.... ever. Again, maybe I am being picky, but huge court cases have been won or lost on a lot more ambiguous language than is used in the Greenworks licence agreements.

Anyway, I didn't wish to start an argument over this and I will most certainly not be making available any models from now on (well not umless I make my own from scratch) 

Miles

[Oshyan]

Miles, I think Greenworks would have a veeeery tough time winning that case, particularly considering one of the core purposes of their product is for the models to be used for rendering.

- Oshyan

[rcallicotte]

I'm pretty sure xFrog is like any other person selling models - you can use them in your work, but to resell the model in any other form is against (common sense) copyright protection.  The point of selling their models is for people to use them.

If you don't think so, ask them.  Send an email to xFrog and tell them your interpretation to see whether they agree or not.  Heck, even send an email to someone who has created an object on Renderosity and ask about their policy.  These are all pretty clear that you can use their objects (or even some of their UV work) in artwork, but can't resell their work in any form whatsoever.

[MooseDog]

...Mind you, you are getting into a very grey legal area even for copyright specialists.

seems to be the nut of the issue here.  i don't know about the uk, but over here there exists an area of law known as "fair use", which is also just as grey but very useful as well.  life, reality and technology's tools are getting way! ahead of the lawyers' ability to describe and codify it, so we all have to make our decisions on-the-fly.

in that respect, @ lightning may i say that i personally have no problem with someone distributing a mesh of mine.....for free....i cannot! stop it so i might as well look at this from a different angle.  the other side of the coin is someone else selling my mesh, and that's unacceptable.

and with all due respect to gregsandor, it is not theft.  copyright has nothing! to do with property rights.  furthermore, if i sell a mesh to mr. miley and he shares a copy with his office-mate, what exactly has been stolen from me?  my point is: nothing   it's a lost sales opportunity, yes certainly, but a free marketing opportunity!

anyhoo,  good luck with the the flora search.  that's an impressive project so far!  (if you need modeling assistance with these obscure trees (there's alot! of them there), i'd be glad to help)

[gregsandor]

There is no grey area here.  Whether you feel it is fair or not has no bearing.  You are stealing if you buy a license to use my model then distribute it.  If you don't like the terms, don't use the model.