OBJ importer crashes TG2 TP4

Started by commorancy, July 15, 2008, 08:42:12 pm

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commorancy

July 15, 2008, 08:42:12 pm Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 06:08:21 am by commorancy
I've tried importing OBJ files into populations that I've successfully imported in previous TG2 versions (TP2 or TP3), yet in TP4 (1.9.98.1) the entire application hangs and then crashes.  Did the OBJ importer get altered in the TP4 release? 

Also, individual OBJ handling seems to be quite a bit different in this release.  I had a previous scene that I re-rendered in TP4 where the imported OBJ renders in 1.9.98.1 much darker than in 1.9.04.1 (or previous versions).  Here are the renders:



TP4 on left (almost black).  TP3 on right (has reasonable ambience). 

The image on the right almost appears to pick up ambience from the ground surface where it doesn't in TP4.  The scene is slightly different composed only because I moved the camera slightly, but not enough to cause this drastic of a change.  If I turn Normals On, I get a much different look (the whole chair is much lighter), but still not the image on the right.  I've tried fiddling with specularity and the color of the chair, but I cannot reproduce the image on the right with any of these changes.

Note that the images above were rendered with identical settings (other than the camera and water transparency turned on).

Thanks.

--
Brian

commorancy

I just read http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4395.msg46149#msg46149 which discusses object importing issues that may be resolved in TP5.  So,  the OBJ object population importing issue may be related to what's discussed in that thread.  I'm not sure, however, if the shading of the object is related to that.

Thanks.

--
Brian

rcallicotte

I'd rather see the two separate images with everything exactly the same.  While it's easy to conclude that certain things don't matter, I've seen where a small change I didn't think matters actually does matter.  Hope you'll be patient with my understanding of troubleshooting, since I work in the IT industry and have found that small changes can change everything. 

If you render both of these in the two different releases with the exact same settings across the board, including Soft Shadows turned on, and you get these sorts of results, I bet Planetside would be very interested.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

commorancy

July 16, 2008, 09:40:01 am #3 Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 10:18:04 am by commorancy
Quote from: calico on July 16, 2008, 08:58:18 am
I'd rather see the two separate images with everything exactly the same.  While it's easy to conclude that certain things don't matter, I've seen where a small change I didn't think matters actually does matter.  Hope you'll be patient with my understanding of troubleshooting, since I work in the IT industry and have found that small changes can change everything. 

If you render both of these in the two different releases with the exact same settings across the board, including Soft Shadows turned on, and you get these sorts of results, I bet Planetside would be very interested.


Unfortunately, I cannot replicate the exact camera location in this original scene as I apparently did not save the camera settings in the TGD file before quitting.  All other setttings were saved, however.  The last thing I did before the final TP3 render above was adjust the camera before the render. I forgot to mention that I rendered the object in this scene several times from several different camera angles in TP4 (close and far away) and the chair remained black (i.e., no change to the visual results).  This is why I'm sure the camera placement is not affecting this issue. 

Also, it took over 2 days to render the first full image in TP3.  I'm not anxious to revisit the first or second render in TP3 by fully re-rendering it.  I could render the image cropped, but that could change the results as well.   Not to mention, I can't re-render it in TP3 while TP4 is installed.  Planetside has decided not to allow installation of both versions simultaneously on the system.  Because I only have the TP4 tgd render saved, the only option is to take the TP4 tgd and re-render it in TP3.  In order to re-render it in TP3, I'd have to uninstall TP4 and reinstall TP3.  Then, spend over 2 days fully re-rendering it.

It's possible that something else has been enabled or disabled between TP3 and TP4.  There have been a number of new features added.  With these additions, some features may been disabled or enabled in TP4 to result in the above visual change.  Because I can't run both versions simultaneously on the same machine and because of TP4's new features, I cannot do a truly side-by-side feature double-check to ensure both scene settings are, in fact, identical before a render.  Thus, TP4 could potentially open TP3 saved tgd files with new features already enabled.. features that didn't exist in TP3.

You'll forgive me, then, if I don't indulge your curiosity.  However, I am willing to upload the TGD and the OBJ file if Planetside requests it.  If they want to do side-by-side comparison renders, I'm fine with that.

Thanks.

--
Brian

gregsandor

July 16, 2008, 08:24:43 pm #4 Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 09:25:02 pm by gregsandor
You can install more than one version; install to a differnt directory.

As for rendering tests, instead of setting up to render at the highest possible quality, and running it for two days, set the renderer to lower quality for fast tests.  This doesn't always catch errors, they sometimes only appear in higher quality rendeers, but it will help with most.

commorancy

July 17, 2008, 12:49:56 am #5 Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 12:51:49 am by commorancy
Quote from: gregsandor on July 16, 2008, 08:24:43 pm
You can install more than one version; install to a differnt directory.

As for rendering tests, instead of setting up to render at the highest possible quality, and running it for two days, set the renderer to lower quality for fast tests.  This doesn't always catch errors, they sometimes only appear in higher quality rendeers, but it will help with most.


Clearly, you have not tried this operation.  You cannot install a second installation into a different directory.  As soon as I start the MSI package install, the installer specifically detects that TG2 is already installed.  Thus, the only options the installer gives me is Repair or Uninstall.  Thus, it cannot be installed a second time through the MSI package installer.  The only option, then, is to remove TG4 and then reinstall an older version to run the render.    Then, uninstall TP3 (or whetaver) and reinstall TP4.  The only way I can install two versions is if the two versions happen to be TG2 Free version combined with TG2 pre-purchase.  That's the only configuration where two versions co-exist.

The point of setting lower quality is moot if I am unable to install both versions on the same machine.

Thanks.

--
Brian

Oshyan

It seems like the issues may be to do with lighting. There were some changes to GI in TP4. Does your scene use GI?

To install multiple versions first install 1, then move the installed files from their installed location (e.g. C:\Program Files\Terragen 2 Technology Preview\) to another folder, then use Add/Remove to uninstall that version and install the other version(s). Run the TG2 exe in the copied folder to invoke that version and use the installed shortcut to run the other verison.

- Oshyan

Matt

July 18, 2008, 06:05:10 pm #7 Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 06:07:13 pm by Matt
Quote from: commorancy on July 17, 2008, 12:49:56 am
As soon as I start the MSI package install, the installer specifically detects that TG2 is already installed.  Thus, the only options the installer gives me is Repair or Uninstall.


The Repair/Uninstall options should only be shown if you have already installed that exact same version. If the installer detects that you have an earlier version installed, it should show you the same options as if you were installing for the first time, except that it is supposed to automatically uninstall the previous version before installing the new. I often rely on the automatic uninstall without uninstalling manually, but we usually recommend that you manually uninstall to be on the safe side.

It is safe to take a copy of the program directory after you have installed it, as long as you don't mind managing the copied files yourself, and then you can freely install new versions without affecting the copy you made.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Matt

There were some changes to the handling of objects in Tech Preview 4, and this meant that some objects would crash when being imported and also cause some problems when the ray tracer intersected them (for shadows, reflections and Global Illumination). The Tech Preview 5 released today fixes those problems, so you may find it helps with this scene.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

commorancy

Quote from: Matt on July 18, 2008, 06:05:10 pm
The Repair/Uninstall options should only be shown if you have already installed that exact same version.


Unfortunately, this is not exactly true.  I have the MSI for both 19981 and 19041.  I have 19981 installed. When I run MSI for 19041, it only gives me the Repair/Uninstall option.  So, what you describe is not exactly true.  However, if I uninstall 19981, reinstall 19041, then re-run 19981 MSI, it might work as you describe.  But, that's a lot of work just to find out.

Quote
It is safe to take a copy of the program directory after you have installed it, as long as you don't mind managing the copied files yourself, and then you can freely install new versions without affecting the copy you made.

Matt


I would have done this had I known I needed to when I installed 19981, but I didn't.  I'm currently in the middle of a render that I can't stop.  If I get some extra time, I will go through the uninstall/reinstall process. 

Thanks.

--
Brian

commorancy

Quote from: Matt on July 18, 2008, 06:10:57 pm
There were some changes to the handling of objects in Tech Preview 4, and this meant that some objects would crash when being imported and also cause some problems when the ray tracer intersected them (for shadows, reflections and Global Illumination). The Tech Preview 5 released today fixes those problems, so you may find it helps with this scene.

Matt


I just downloaded the new MSI.  As soon as I get a chance, I'll install it and re-render the scene.

Thanks.

--
Brian