vue - Spectral Atmospheres 2

Started by reck, August 13, 2008, 01:50:09 PM

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Jack

I wouldent call the last clouds "crappy" i think xpleet has nearly hit the nail on the head here with a little less noise in the Forground I think the will be pretty amazing the clouds in the distance personally I think are better than what Terragen 2 can do plus the lighting is a lot more realistic from my experience of flying over on a jet when I go abroad this image looks just like when i look out the window of the jet
My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

FrankB

hmm... xpleet, with the latest render you spoiled it for me ;-)
The first one was actually good, especially considering the render time. But this one, no. Maybe that has to do with the way you contructured the clouds, so more an artist's fault than vue's fault, but I cannot tell.

I saw clouds from vue that looked good, so I'm inclined to think you haven't done this one well.

Regards,
Frank

domdib

I wonder if this discussion is not becoming a bit of a dialogue of the deaf. Can we not agree that both Vue and TG2 can produce great clouds? And then?

FrankB

I'm not on any "side" at all, so for me it is an interesting discussion (for the most part. not the religious stuff, though).
I only know TG2, so this gives me a look over the fence.

Frank

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: domdib on April 06, 2009, 05:45:35 AM
I wonder if this discussion is not becoming a bit of a dialogue of the deaf. Can we not agree that both Vue and TG2 can produce great clouds? And then?

I tend to agree with that indeed. I can't really put my finger on it, but somehow Vue's clouds lack something. A kind of definition/detail level which TG does offer due to the level of control it offers over Vue clouds. However, I agree that Vue's clouds indeed can look very good and also render faster which is a plus.

@Wetbanana: I'm looking forward to see those MentalRay rendered clouds!

neuspadrin

I've kinda been ignoring this thread... as it seems to be 13 pages of fighting over whos got better clouds....


.. this being the tg2 forums and me being a tg2 user...

*steps over to the tg2 side*
YEHH!!! TG2 CLOUDS FTW!! TAKE THAT VUE!

;)

Seth


Xpleet

#187
There they are judging and comparing and judging and comparing again, quite pitiful imo. And besides, I wonder if anyone is aware that this forum generally has a pretty bad atmosphere.

I gave you a couple of simplistic examples so take it or leave it but don't expect me to respond to the whining battery. When I read things like "those vue defenders" it makes me feel as though I joined a kindergarten here. I've only made my point and now people can come, download my file and develope even better clouds.

Seth

I wonder what you are expecting on an official TG2 forum...
what do you think will be the attitude of Vue user if we post TG2 renders saying that, in our opinion, TG2 can do better than Vue considering the clouds... ?
this "Vue Vs TG2" thing seems to be as old as the two softwares... TG2 users will always prefer TG2 and Vue users will always prefer TG2...
that is not kindergarden attitude, that's only matter of taste. Well that what I think...
As for the atmosphere of the forum, I've been in a lot of forums and I think you're totally wrong... TG2's community is a very good one and I learnt a lot of thing in here, because people shared a lot of knowledge.
Give us real good examples instead of simplistic ones and maybe people will change their mind (well, I'll do if you show me real good clouds).
Perhaps you can link us atmosphere done by top artists made with Vue... That will be a good way to compare atmo, don't you think ?

neuspadrin

Agreed with seth.  We are on the tg2 forums, where the users know and understand how to use tg2 atmospheres to their advantage. 

As for who's better tg2 or vue, thats what we call an opinion.  Thing is the opinion of this board will almost always side with tg2, as its what we know like and use. 

I have yet to see anything done in vue that truely amazes me, yet with tg2 i have seen quite a few various images from time to time with atmospheres (or just in general) amaze me.

A lot of it also boils down to the artist.  Who made the clouds, how skilled are they and how well do they understand how to get the best out of a given program.

latego

All this discussion should also be analyzed in the light of all those photographic sites in which you see images of real clouds which are so far from our stereotipical model of cloud to make almost everybody say "nah, it's photoshopped"...

When you see great Vue clouds, you are never watching the result of stock configurations: they are always the result of long tuning of internal parameters and shader structure. GeekAtPlay tutorials give the false idea that you can create a great Vue render in a quarter of an hour: in reality, expect to spend even a full hour tuning just ONE single material.

At the end in Vue you have to edit in detail the shader network structure and parameters, exactly as you would do in TG2, only with a more friendly user interface (the network analyzed in small chunks and not thrown into your face in one shot).

Now that I have bought also Carrara 7, I have understood one thing: every render creates images with its own particular style. I have never seen a dreamy, foggy scene done with TG2 exactly as it is extremely difficult that you will see a sharp, photo-like desert scene in Vue galleries. Carrara renders are about in between the two worlds, with DAZ Studio it is horrendously difficult to have fuzzy shadows and so on. There is no Swiss Army Knife program around, each has its philosophy and area of excellence; all this mine is bigger... sorry, sharper than yours talks are somewhat pointless, so if you have one program, specialize in the kind of scenes it does best, otherwise, get the program which does best what you want (and nothing, apart from the credit card limit, prevents you from having many tools).

Bye!!!

P.S.: is TG2 final going to be available also for free evaluation?

PG

Quote from: latego on April 06, 2009, 01:34:00 PM
At the end in Vue you have to edit in detail the shader network structure and parameters, exactly as you would do in TG2, only with a more friendly user interface (the network analyzed in small chunks and not thrown into your face in one shot).

That's, again, a matter of opinion. I used Vue 6 for a month and vue 7 for a week and in neither case really knew where anything was. With TG2 I could render pretty convincing cloud and ocean scenes in a matter of hours. Ease of use is a completely pointless term that software developers tout. Mac users say that OSX can be used by a baby, I say OSX can be thrown in the bin. That's another thing too. Vue users tend to use Mac and Mac tends to be used by visual effects teams on movies. TG tends to be used on Windows by hobbyists, artists and professional rendering companies.
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Bluestorm

This is an image I did in January in Vue. Full resolution on http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?pos=-25098

You can produce nice clouds in Vue, but they have a completely different "feel" and look than TG2's clouds, so all comparisons are useless. TG2's clouds look amazing, I think every Vue owner agrees with that. Vue's new Spectral 2 clouds are nice, but they are different. Take it or leave it, I think what matters is the artist and not the software that is behind a nice cloud render.

rcallicotte

Some of the Vue clouds actually look more realistic, but that isn't because of the shapes (necessarily); it's because of the lighting inside the clouds.  We can't get this as easily in TG2 and I think someone should take note and hopefully produce these sorts of clouds in TG2.  Then, pass your parameters to the rest of us.  TG2 clouds do not have sufficient lighting and depth - they lack the degrees of subtlety seen in real clouds.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

PG

That image is much nicer. Still too "bubbly" for my tastes but that is, like you say, because vue clouds are developed differently to TG2 clouds


worse ;D
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