Upgrade project from 32 bit Vista to 64 bit Vista for TG2

[commorancy]

As you may or may not know, I have a thread going regarding Threads that crash during the middle of a render (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4569.0).  Anyway, I theorized that this issue may involve some kind of 32 bit memory limitation that I'm running into during the render.  freelancah tried a render that had been previously failing on 32 bit windows and that apparently completed on 64 bit windows.  As a result of that test, I've decided to upgrade my 64 bit ready system to Vista 64 and give Terragen 2 a try. 

Calico asked me to post an update on my progress moving to 64 bit Vista including application compatibility.  So, I'm posting it here to take it out of the other non-related topic.  Anyway, here's my status so far.

I've ordered all of the parts I need so far: 8 GB of memory (max out the system) and a copy of Vista Home Premium 64 from Tiger Direct.  It should be here by Thursday.  Barring any unforseen circumstances, I should have the system up and running on Saturday.  However, note that it isn't a straight upgrade from 32 bit to 64 bit.  As far as I can tell, it requires a fresh install including all apps.  So, I fully expect it to take most of Saturday to get everything (apps and the OS) reinstalled and all my projects recovered.

I'd like to make the system dual bootable back into 32 bit in case I have any difficulties getting the 64 bit version working.  But, I'm not yet sure if that's possible.

Calico also asked about application compatibility.  I have not yet worked with 64 bit windows.  However, I do know that older 64 bit Windows would not run 32 bit apps.  According to what I've recently read on the net, Vista 64 does run 32 bit apps (it must have some kind of emulation layer for these types of apps).  The question, though, is how well do they run?  I won't know that until I get it installed.  See http://www.realtime-windowsserver.com/os_features_troubleshooting/2008/08/yes_you_can_run_32bit_applicat.htm for more details.  The one thing that is mentioned is that 64 bit Windows does not support the very old 16 bit app subsystem, so those 16 bit apps will only run under 32 bit Vista.  Of course, you could run VMWare and host 32 bit Vista under 64 bit Vista to get the 16 bit app compatibility.  While VMWare is a good emulation system, it does lack some graphics support for higher end apps.  But, you probably won't find many 16 bit apps that fall into that category.

Thanks.

--
Brian

[Oshyan]

As I said in the other thread (good idea to split it though), I run Vista x64 and TG2 definitely works better under it due to the availability of up to 4GB of memory. Other 32 bit applications also work fine, including games, graphics apps (Photoshop), and many other things. In fact I have yet to run into an application that had a problem I would attribute to the 64 bit OS. The emulation system seems extremely effective, and in fact it has been since XP x64.

As for conversion, none should be necessary for TG2. Just reinstall TG2 and load up your old programs and everything should work great.

Dual booting is possible and it is how I have also setup one of my machines. If you already have Vista 32 bit installed it should automatically setup a multi-boot system if you install the OS either A: to the same partition with a different path or B: to a different hard drive/partition. It may automatically change the Windows install path if you tell it to ignore warnings about an existing OS and proceed with install. It will create alternate Documents and Programs folders and default user accounts, etc. for the new OS. This is how it worked on my systems and it is fairly easily. That being said, *do* back everything up and be prepared to for dual boot not to work just in case.

Good luck with the transition. Let us know how it goes.

- Oshyan

[commorancy]

As I said in the other thread (good idea to split it though), I run Vista x64 and TG2 definitely works better under it due to the availability of up to 4GB of memory.

This is good to note and also answers why freelancah's renders likely worked under 64 bit Vista.

Dual booting is possible and it is how I have also setup one of my machines. If you already have Vista 32 bit installed it should automatically setup a multi-boot system if you install the OS to the same partition with a different path

Good luck with the transition. Let us know how it goes.

This is what I was hoping (and planning) to do.  This way, I can easily keep my 32 bit setup out there.  Since most versions of Windows allow for this installation method, I was assuming that Vista 64 would be the same.  So, as I said, I had planned to try this installation method first so that I can keep all my profiles and files out there.

--
Brian

[commorancy]

Ok, I got my upgrade kit on Thursday and decided to spend Thursday evening upgrading it.  So, it's now running 64 bit Vista.  To tell the truth, I see very little difference between 64 and 32 bit Vista.   The only issues I've run into is an already existing issue I had with Poser and my graphics card.   For some reason, the NVidia driver for the 8400GS has a buggy OpenGL driver and it crashes with Poser.  I've had this issue with the 32 bit driver and the 64 bit driver.  The symptoms and crash are slightly different between the versions, but the reasons it crashes I believe are the same.

Anyway, ignoring that issue which is really an Nvidia issue, the upgrade went very smoothly.  I have a few motherboard devices (ir port and sm bus) that don't seem to have drivers.  I'll have to call HP to find out if they have the latest 64 bit version of the motherboard chipset drivers.  I did have to reinstall all of the apps... and I'm still technically in this process.  But, it's almost done.

Daz Studio is a problem because it also uses OpenGL and triggers that driver bug described above.  I'm considering finding another graphics board to replace this one to get rid of this OpenGL issue.  The problem, I need it to have an HDMI port... which the 8400GS does.

I'll post more as I run into things.

Thanks.

--
Brian

[commorancy]

Oh, and just to mention, I am trying a Terragen 2 render that failed previously on 32 bit Vista to see how it goes on 64 bit Vista.   To answer the question of app compatibility, I have yet to find an app that wouldn't run.  Drivers, on the other hand, are another issue.

Thanks.

--
Brian

[rcallicotte]

If the video card has a way to fix issues per application, then have you tried setting up Poser and DS with their own settings?  Try messing with the stuff around OpenGL to see if it helps.  Also, a lot of people have had problems with SR3 for Poser.  Perhaps backing out of that and going back to SR3 would help?

Do you play any recent games to see how they perform?  I'm curious about HL2 and F.E.A.R., which both use pretty solid graphics engines.

Ok, I got my upgrade kit on Thursday and decided to spend Thursday evening upgrading it.  So, it's now running 64 bit Vista.  To tell the truth, I see very little difference between 64 and 32 bit Vista.   The only issues I've run into is an already existing issue I had with Poser and my graphics card.   For some reason, the NVidia driver for the 8400GS has a buggy OpenGL driver and it crashes with Poser.  I've had this issue with the 32 bit driver and the 64 bit driver.  The symptoms and crash are slightly different between the versions, but the reasons it crashes I believe are the same.

Anyway, ignoring that issue which is really an Nvidia issue, the upgrade went very smoothly.  I have a few motherboard devices (ir port and sm bus) that don't seem to have drivers.  I'll have to call HP to find out if they have the latest 64 bit version of the motherboard chipset drivers.  I did have to reinstall all of the apps... and I'm still technically in this process.  But, it's almost done.

Daz Studio is a problem because it also uses OpenGL and triggers that driver bug described above.  I'm considering finding another graphics board to replace this one to get rid of this OpenGL issue.  The problem, I need it to have an HDMI port... which the 8400GS does.

I'll post more as I run into things.

Thanks.

--
Brian

[George]

I run Vista Ultimate 64, but for those, who do not know about the /3Gb switch in XP, just try it: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx :D it helps alot for XP 32 users.