Mountain Fly By

cyphyr · December 20, 2008, 08:12:49 PM

I've had another go at animating, quite happy with the result but there are still some problems. Err it is a bit fast lol ,also..
Look at the shadows cast by the mountain range, they keep clipping in and out. I've tried various GI blur radius, 8 (default, 80, and 300 and the clipping is still there but id slightly different places. I also got some populator errors but these did not seem to show up visually.
Here's the link http://vimeo.com/2587731
Enjoy

Comments and critique very welcome
Richard

rcallicotte · December 20, 2008, 09:53:24 PM

Very enjoyable. Well planned.

kaisersuzuki · December 20, 2008, 10:19:56 PM

Excellent.

Oshyan · December 20, 2008, 10:45:26 PM

Very nice. We'll look into the shadow flicker issues. What were your detail and other GI settings?

- Oshyan

choronr · December 20, 2008, 11:24:20 PM

Love it! Maybe a little slower so we can enjoy all the excellent surfaces and vegetation here.

cyphyr · December 21, 2008, 04:39:09 AM

Thanks for looking in to this, I'll send you the file if needed, sans the models of course

Detail was set to only 0.6 with AA at 11.
GI blur set to 8, 80 and 300 (300 from where the camera goes over the ridge)
rel detail and sample quality both at 1.
Each frame rendered from 5min to 9min at most.
Richard

JimB · December 21, 2008, 07:17:56 AM

Quote from: Oshyan on December 20, 2008, 10:45:26 PM
Very nice. We'll look into the shadow flicker issues. What were your detail and other GI settings?

- Oshyan

The same issue seen in the reflection bug (off-camera LOD optimisation)?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5409.0

old_blaggard · December 21, 2008, 10:27:50 AM

Nice job, even considering the rendering errors.

cyphyr · December 21, 2008, 12:53:00 PM

Quote from: JimB on December 21, 2008, 07:17:56 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on December 20, 2008, 10:45:26 PM
Very nice. We'll look into the shadow flicker issues. What were your detail and other GI settings?

- Oshyan

The same issue seen in the reflection bug (off-camera LOD optimisation)?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5409.0

Seems like there are two flickering issues, one concerned with GI settings (making GI bigger generally seems to sort it out) and possibly another with to do with off-camera LOD optimization. That would make sense and looks like in most cases it is a good optimization, however not in this case. Interestingly, I now notice in my other animation, the Ice Yacht, that some of the shadows are clipped, and this is from terrain within the camera view. A slider possibly that could set the value of this optimization would be helpful in the future.
Thanks
Richard

Oshyan · December 21, 2008, 03:45:40 PM

Quote from: JimB on December 21, 2008, 07:17:56 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on December 20, 2008, 10:45:26 PM
Very nice. We'll look into the shadow flicker issues. What were your detail and other GI settings?

- Oshyan

The same issue seen in the reflection bug (off-camera LOD optimisation)?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5409.0

I don't think this is the same issue. The shadows that are affected are often not from off-screen geometry, so it's not an "off screen optimization" issue. My guess, with the detail and GI relatively low, is that it's simply detail-related. I would use GI 2/2 if possible, GI blur at 100-300, and a main render detail of 0.7. Reduce AA to 8 and you should still have decent motion blur quality, but save a little render time. Overall render time will be higher, but shadow consistency should theoretically be better. If you can test a few frames of that in problem areas from the previous animation that would be very helpful.

- Oshyan

cyphyr · December 22, 2008, 12:13:38 PM

Ok I rendered at you suggested settings and although the effect is less pronounced it is still very visible. The sun is behind the camera and the shadows are definately cast by terrain off screen. The render times have increased as you predicted but not by an unmanageable amount. Any further suggestions? Attached are two consecutive images showing the shadow clipping. Layer them in Photoshop to see the effect clearly.
Thanks
Richard

cyphyr · December 23, 2008, 07:24:06 AM

Two more, this time with Global Illumination (previous post with AI)
Still the same issues.
Be nice to get a solution before xmass so I can render a high quality version over the break ....
I've included the tgd this time. (Without the models, that would be another 200mb). Very simple single terrain displacement and a small stack of surface shaders, shouldn't be a difficult issue I'd have thought but hey ...
Here's hoping

Richard

Oshyan · December 23, 2008, 05:44:54 PM

Judging by your most recent screenshots I would agree that this could be a similar "off-screen geometry detail limit" issue. I will see if this is something that can be addressed. Of course doing so would almost certainly increase render time, though I don't know how much.

- Oshyan

JimB · December 23, 2008, 05:59:17 PM

The problem arises like this when the sun is at a low angle, so off-camera geometry comes into view through secondary rays. Look at the Alpha post I made a while ago.

cyphyr · December 24, 2008, 10:29:18 AM

Well I guess there's no solution for now.

I'm rendering a slower 1000 frame sequence over the holidays, changed the sun angle, (higher and at right angles to the main camera path) also moved from GI to AO as the shadow clipping is less noticeable in AO.
I can already see some shadow clipping errors creeping in to the earliest frames, this time from shadows cast from within the camera FoV.
Anyway it'll be rendering for a week or so so I'll post the results when I return from the holidays.

Seasonal Greets to everyone
Good will to all
May your heart sing
May you be blessed
May you blessed be

bb

Richard