prove these guys wrong

Started by Jack, April 30, 2009, 07:10:19 PM

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cyphyr

Two very inspiring artists, I particularly like the first one :)
Richard
www.richardfraservfx.com
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
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Ryzen 9 5950X OC@4Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 4:13)

Jack

#16
yup this guy!




:o :o :o
My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: wetbanana on April 30, 2009, 08:00:49 PM
That is an amazing oil-painting!

Yes indeed :)

However, I agree with you, very nice and that would be very difficult to reproduce :)

Jack

yeah Alot of those pictures are photoshop though it say comnining vue and photoshop i would like to see the images before they went through ps
My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

Tangled-Universe

That picture you posted isn't Vue or Photoshop, it is a real oil-painting ;)

Jack

oh woops  ;D thought it was too good to be true!
My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

Tangled-Universe

Shit happens ;D It's late! (at least, it is here)
I see you now replaced it for something else, nice one too :) Inspirational indeed :)

Mars Mug

I show people Terragen images and they ask me where the place is, they don't see them as computer generated. I recon that Vue image while far better than anything I could even imagine doing, still looks computer generated. If we printed off a load of real photos, Terragen images, and that Vue image and asked people to pick out the computer generated ones, that Vue image would be most likely to be picked.

reck

Quote from: JimB on April 30, 2009, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: wetbanana on April 30, 2009, 07:48:25 PM
Some of the Vue renders I have seen are spectacular their is this guy who does renders that look like paintings not realistic but a work of art

One of these guys? Nice stuff, but still possible in TG2.
http://www.digitalimagemagazine.com/blog/featured/inspiration-dominic-davison/
http://www.digitalimagemagazine.com/blog/featured/inspiration-karin-eszterhas/

Does this guy go by the name of Dom1 on the renderosity forums? When you started talking about a guy who uses vue to create renders that look like paintings that's the first person I thought about. Now that you've posted those images I think it's him even more.

commorancy

#24
Two major things about Vue... 1) Vue is now content-ware much like Daz Studio.  So, they give you a restricted Vue 7 Pioneer version for free and you buy content for it produced by others through the Vue store. If you buy certain content (for enough money), Vue 7 becomes 'unlocked' (you get all of the features).  2) The basics provided in Vue 7 Pioneer are just that, basic.  You cannot come close to producing a scene of the visual stunning that TG2 does out-of-the-box.  There's also no way to produce a scene anywhere close to the farm image provided in this thread with the included objects given in the free version.  I personally found its visual interface is not intuitive.  I supposed after I worked with it for a while, I'd figure it out, but it just doesn't work for me in the way that I like to work.

The idea of the reinvented Vue business model is interesting.  It is designed to make money by selling content (houses, trees, plants, etc) and use the application as a springboard vehicle for those sales.  It's interesting in that Daz Studio has shown it to be a successful model (as long as the content is extremely high quality).  Smith Micro (Poser) has tried this with Content Paradise but their content comes nowhere near the quality of Daz.  I haven't invested in any Vue content yet, but some of it does appear compelling.  I just found that Vue's add-ons to open the package up to the full version were a bit costly in my book... especially when you start buying trees, bushes and plants. I might do this at some point when I have some spare cash, but I already have an excellent landscape generation tool and it's called TG2.

Anyway, the point is, what makes that scene isn't the quality of the render, it's the quality of the objects IN the render.  To be convincing, a plant needs to look like a plant.  A house like a house, etc.  That's what makes or breaks a scene.  If the object is of low quality, then the whole image appears digital or somehow 'wrong'.  TG2 can easily produce the same scene, the question is... can it do it better?  Probably not... but that's mostly because of the plant, house, bird objects that Vue had no hand in the creation of.  Vue's lighting and atmosphere system is probably its best aspect and that's what the image creator took advantage of in the farmhouse scene.

As for the future of TG2, TG2 probably needs to become content-ware as well.  I would like to see Planetside set up a store involving the sale of TGO objects for use in TG2 renders.  By setting up such a store, Planetside could take a cut of any TGO objects sold and increase how much they make from TG2.  They might even make enough to reduce the cost of TG2 and make it up on the sale of content.  But, TG2 also needs to allow for a plug-in system so that the sale of third party plug-ins is possible.  Planetside also needs to allow the easy export/import of node networks as presets within TG2.  So, if you want to drop in clouds produced by someone else, you simply import a cloud preset.  These presets can, again, be sold on a Planetside content store for purchase by users who want to produce a scene.

So, then, the whole thing becomes much more focused on the content produced than about the application itself... which is probably as it should be.  Such a store would also allow for much more easy location of objects for use within TG2.  Right now, it's not nearly as convenient in that we all have to find .OBJ files and them import them.  With a TGO store, it's a one click download and you're rapidly producing a scene.  The other good thing is that a store can entice existing 3D modeling artists to begin creation of objects for sale on a Planetside store.  There are plenty of artists who sell on Daz, Content Paradise and now Vue's store that would likely begin producing content for Terragen 2 were a store to become available.

Thanks.

--
Brian

Phylloxera

#25
A pleasant image, but it is clear for me without party taken which it misses cruelly of realism! (the first image).
the second is much more realistic!


domdib

@commorancy
QuotePlanetside also needs to allow the easy export/import of node networks as presets within TG2.
This is already possible as clip files.
QuoteSo, if you want to drop in clouds produced by someone else, you simply import a cloud preset.  These presets can, again, be sold on a Planetside content store for purchase by users who want to produce a scene.
FrankB, Tangled-Universe and Seth are already doing this via New World Digital Art. I believe Luc Bianco also sells a preset  for Canyons. So this is already happening.

commorancy

#27
Quote from: domdib on May 01, 2009, 05:34:26 AM
@commorancy
QuotePlanetside also needs to allow the easy export/import of node networks as presets within TG2.
This is already possible as clip files.
QuoteSo, if you want to drop in clouds produced by someone else, you simply import a cloud preset.  These presets can, again, be sold on a Planetside content store for purchase by users who want to produce a scene.
FrankB, Tangled-Universe and Seth are already doing this via New World Digital Art. I believe Luc Bianco also sells a preset  for Canyons. So this is already happening.

It's already happening, yes.  But, not in a single convenient place.  You have to go track them down or know how to find them.  Having a store that's run and sanctioned by Planetside makes it far easier for TG2 owners to find content in one single place.  Right now, there's Ashundar and, as you mentioned New World Digital Art.  There might be others sites as well.  Creating a single place where it all can be sold and perhaps even building an ecommerce interface right into TG2 for direct import makes it far simpler to get scenes together fast.  So, if you need a farmhouse along with some field grass for your scene, you browse, buy, import and render.  No conversion required.  No hassling with shaders.  No scaling issues.  No fumbling for texture maps.  Perhaps a lot of people like doing this sort of thing with 3D objects, but many people don't want this.  They want to have what they need at their fingertips.  Granted, if I could buy a farmhouse for $15 versus having to spend an hour locating one, converting it, importing it and fumbling with shaders and textures, I'd probably spend the $15.  That's why a single store for TG2 is important rather than having people randomly do it on whatever sites across the net.

As far as clip files go, it needs a better import process.  For example, to import clouds, it should be as simple as clicking on the 'Atmsophere' button, then under that area, right-click import.  That's how it should work.  Having 'insert clip file' off of the main menu isn't intuitive, nor does it suggest where those nodes might end up.  It also dumps the nodes right into the nodes area potentially on top of everything else.  The objects that are imported should stay encapsulated as a single imported group that's separate from any other nodes so that they can be easily deleted as a single group.  That way, if you decide you want to remove imported generated cloud bank, it's an easy delete.  This is especially true when the node layout is complex.  Granted, if the designer is thoughtful enough to put the nodes into its own grouped area, then that may make it import better.  But, right now that's left up to each designer to do.  TG2 should automatically know to import any clip files under its own imported node group for easy deletion.  TG2 should also allow the designer to label the 'type' of object that it is (object, shader, atmosphere, etc) so that the group appears under one of the buttons.  Again, this makes it an easy delete.

Thanks.

Goms

Well, if we're talking about objects, a place to get some would be cowl.
But Clip Files.... I don't think its even a good idea to share them at all...
If you have a site where everybody can simply download a terrain, surface files, objects, clouds and water settings... than you don't really create an image.
Thats just combining the work of others. Even if you buy all this, its not a big thing to just combine something and render it. There is no... own work.
Maybe many people see this different.
Quote from: FrankB
you're never going to finish this image ;-)

FrankB

Quote from: commorancy on May 01, 2009, 07:14:51 AM
Quote from: domdib on May 01, 2009, 05:34:26 AM
FrankB, Tangled-Universe and Seth are already doing this via New World Digital Art. I believe Luc Bianco also sells a preset  for Canyons. So this is already happening.

It's already happening, yes.  But, not in a single convenient place.

Actually, what's happening now is the beginning of the creation of a partner ecosystem around TG2. It may happen the way you described, or in another and maybe better ways.
I think that we users and Planetside.. they don't want to become exactly like Vue.

Eventually, individual contributors to that ecosystem may or may not join forces. At the moment, we are on our way to exactly do that. NWDA is gathering the best artists for TG2 (and growing) to create a de-facto high quality TG2 ecosystem side on the commercial end of it all. We're small still, but we're growing, so that in a while we'll have a big portfolio to choose from. So this may become one of the places you're looking at.
But equally important is the free sharing that we all do, here and in other places. Although I run the commercial store at NWDA, I still share presets and techniques. Some of them I actually develop consciuosly just for free distribution. I also encourage my partners to continue to share things.
Never forget that TG2 has just launched, and this is all the early beginnings of it. We don't have to rush headless, just to eventually become the same rip-off as the Vue ecosystem apparently is.
We have the chance, and the obligation, to make it better. And in my mind, that includes a healthy mix of communities, free sharing and productized "solutions", such as some high end presets and objects.

Amen :)
Frank