Did you see the movie : Nefes ( Breath ) ?

[Kadri]

If you can find this movie please try to watch it. Of course i can not guaranty that you like it.
But i liked it a lot . It is better than the most i saw in the years . If you feel so write your feelings about it here.

I try to be objective about this film and about the real things it tells .
But i don't know how you will see it . I would love to hear other opinions .

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1171701/

And this is a scene from nearly in the first 15 minute . The English translation here on youtube is not so good but it is enough .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQDnN5fPA0M#movie_player

For the record : This kind of events that are depicted in the film are a sad reality for nearly 30-40 years here .
And maybe more then 45 000 people died

I don't think that we can bring polytical problems come to an end here.
Thus i want more your opinion what you get from this film as a foreigner  to this problem.

Cheers.

Kadri.

[latego]

What about not exterminating minorities? may be that way there would be no need to "defend" against survivors righteous vengeance.

For some images, google for "Armenian genocide" and go to the photo search results.

Just the first page will give you a good mix of hangings, beheadings, women and children starving to death and other turkish delights.

Remember that armenians are just one of example of turkish behaviour, don't forget about what they did to greeks and to kurds, just to stick to the last century.

Bye from an italian, i.e. someone born in a country which had for centuries a first hand experience of the turkish way of life... and death.

[Kadri]

What about not exterminating minorities? may be that way there would be no need to "defend" against survivors righteous vengeance.

For some images, google for "Armenian genocide" and go to the photo search results.

Just the first page will give you a good mix of hangings, beheadings, women and children starving to death and other turkish delights.

Remember that armenians are just one of example of turkish behaviour, don't forget about what they did to greeks and to kurds, just to stick to the last century.

Bye from an italian, i.e. someone born in a country which had for centuries a first hand experience of the turkish way of life... and death.

This is what i mean when i said  "I don't think that we can bring polytical problems come to an end here. " and i should add here historical .
When you aproach it that way i think no country is better then the other :

"During the Italian colonial period, between 20% and 50% of the Libyan population died in the struggle for independence,
and mainly in prison camps.[citation needed] Some 150,000 Italians settled in Libya, constituting roughly one-fifth of the total population."
And don't get me started on the Roman's ...

See ? You and i can paste here many such things nearly about any country . I don't think that we can come to an meaningful agreement here .
And that isn't my intention. I am not the kind of Turk you maybe think i am .
For example i am atheist and more of a socialist and if you are familiar with these they tend to want more freedom for everyone .

If you read my post carefully i wanted what you take from this film. Did it made you see the so called terrorists look too bad ?
Was it anti or pro militarist to you ?.

If i was the kind of person you (maybe) think i am i hadn't asked this at all. I would said this is a good film and see it !
Do you think that i am the one who is responsible for the things that may or not may be in the past ? Do you know me?

Did you see "Midnight express" ? It is very easy to make look any country to look bad . This is a bad exaggerated film that the director latter himself admitted .

In your post is nothing that indicate that you see the film ?

So back to the basic .  What is your feeling about this film ? Not on the people of a country !  

Cheers.

Kadri.

[latego]

I am not condoning italian crimes.

General Badoglio (currently a semihero in official mythology) did invent a fire proof technique of crushing revolts:
1) isolate borders, making the country into a big concentration camp;
2) deport all population of the contested areas into concentration camps (and if, like in Libya, 50% of them dies... the better);
3) at this point engage lonely guerrillas and kill 'em all (bullets or nooses according to the personal taste).

I don't know about step 1, but for sure step 2 is considered a crime against humanity and in Nurnberg trials was a crime sufficient for death penalty by itself.

To put things into perspective, Pol Pot did kill only 33% of Cambodia population, so Badoglio 50% hit rate is better.

By the way, dear Kadri, you could have reminded me of italian war crimes in former Yugoslavia: in 1942 general Robotti wrote "Non si ammazza abbastanza!" "We don't kill enough!"; e.g. in "transit camps" where the population was deported the death rate was, again, about 50%.

The second most disgusting aspect is that both Libyan and ex-Yugoslavia war crimes and genocides were not commited by party militias (like the SS) or by more or less "spontaneous" uprisings but they were enacted by the REGULAR ARMY.

The most disgusting aspect is that, as it was a fault of the regular army, it was condoned by the highest country authorities (even during WWII, the army was actually more loyal to the King than to Mussolini) and...

...EVEN TODAY, THERE IS AN OFFICIAL REMOVAL OF STATE AND ARMY GUILTS...

to the point that the well known movie (The Lion of the Desert) has NEVER been displayed here in Italy and people denouncing the facts were prosecuted for defamation against the army.

Hmm, let's see the checklist:
1) army deliberate involment in crimes;
2) cover from the highest country officials;
3) enduring negation of the crimes;
4) legal persecution of people documenting crimes.

...actually my country and yours do look like quite similar, don't they? the only difference is that I spit on mine.

P.S.: During italian army "peace" operations in Somalia, there were charges (quickly dropped, needless to note) against an army major of having sodomized a somali child with a grenade...

[Kadri]

Latego , after your first post i was in doubt that we can reasonably talk together here but your last post is quite strongly the opposite .
You seem like a conscious man . Do i think that our country hasn't any bad things in the past ? No . It has of course .
But what me offend most of the time is that the accusers act like they are the angels .
Every one who knows history a little , knows that every where and country you look you will see blood of many innocent people in all age and gender.

You know this as i see.

My post was because of these things .
It is harder to judge a film about such a really strong and sad subject when you are one , who are affected by them every day .
Thus i wanted really fresh opinions from outsiders in what way they see this film .

If you read my other posts  here in the forum , i think you will see that i try (hopefully) not to break anyones feelings here .
And if the post has a kind of propaganda feeling... I hate propaganda in every form !
And don't trust governments and people that act in such way ...

Edit : The truth is i don't trust governments at all .

I want to say some things in a finer way but my English is only at this level  for now .

And your words about spiting ...I know what you mean . If you -me-we know the past better we can make the future a more peaceful world to live .
In the last 40 years many better things happened here ( bad things too) from a democracy  perspective .
Are they enough ? Of course no !
This is a process that unfortunately don't happen in one night . But i and many like me have hope .
There are people i absolutely hate in my country and i am not one who does this easily. Such people are in other country's too .
But here are many more people like me then you think , Latego .

Most of the time when i talk with tourists here they say we thought about you very differently before we came here .
And especially the Germans say it the most . They think that every one here is like the Turks in Germany .
The one they know are the uneducated ones who gone there in the 60 's . So the perception isn't true most of the time .
Do you know the best friend of my Father was a Greek in Germany . Turk and Greek ! This is what should happen . My was a Spanish .
I had of course good German friends but you know what i mean .

This is getting off the point ... It would be nice to talk these things . In writing the feelings are hard to see ...

Peace , i mean it !  

Kadri.