still have a tool tips problem

Started by shadowphile, January 20, 2010, 12:01:33 PM

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shadowphile

Now that I realize how useful the special tooltips are, this issue is even more important.

Regular ones are ok.  Tooltips in the preview or node window just blink though.  Please suggest solutions, or something.
thanks

(I suspect my Nvidia driver but it's updated and short of actually uninstalling and replacing with ATI or something I'm not sure what else to do in that direction.)

edit: tried installling it on my other PC, which has very different specs.  older Nvidia card, desktop features turned off.  ALSO has the tooltip problem.

Henry Blewer

It might be a setting in the Windows Control Panel. Check the mouse pointer settings. If high acceleration is used, for example, it may be doing quick hovers and think you have moved the mouse off the tool.
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shadowphile

I tried disabling any point accel or precision tweaks, no change.
I did accidently discover WHERE the tooltips are going.  Behind the window!
I noticed with the window very small that the tooltip could lay partly outside the TG window.  The section outside responds correctly, floating serenely in place until I move my mouse.  I can see the inside section blink then disappear.  It's obvious the TG window is overwriting the tooltip, er, balloon.
See pic.

[attachthumb=1]

Henry Blewer

Well, that makes your work flow fun... :P Do you have the mouse set to activate the window when it is being hovered over, like a Sun mouse? This would bring the Terragen 2 window to the window layer foreground.
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Forget Tuesday; It's just Monday spelled with a T

shadowphile

#4
nope, no Sun mouse effect.  Tried that years ago, ugh.  It certainly seems like something is grabbing the window focus though...
BTW, it was doing it on two different machines that have little in common except for XP SP3.  That should be a clue, except it can also rule out almost everything!  ???

Oh, and other 'non special' tooltips don't have the problem.  Wish I knew what made these 'special', since a tool tip is a tool tip, wherever it floats.  Oh wait.... they are es'special'ly prone to problems, now I get it.  Heh.

Matt

I hope we can figure out what's causing this or offer an alternative way of displaying tooltips in GL displays.
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Henry Blewer

Are you using Microsoft's Tweak UI?
http://flickr.com/photos/njeneb/
Forget Tuesday; It's just Monday spelled with a T

jo

Hi,

Finding out it's disappearing should be a big help in tracking it down. When my XP machine is running properly again I'll update to SP3 and see if I can reproduce it. For the record I haven't ever seen this on 3 different machines running XP SP2, Vista 32, Vista 64 and Win 7 64.

Regards,

Jo

shadowphile

#8
BTW, I notice that I have both 2.03 and 2.1 installed on my machine.  Did I not install right?  Can I safely uninstall the older version without thrashing some dlls for the newer version?
thanks


edit: I'm beginning to think this is an OpenGL problem.  Windows handles ITS segment of overlapping graphic ok, but the node network space and the 3d preview space both seem to refresh their views immediately and blot out the inside portion of the tooltip ballon.

Since we are all running the same TG2 code, then it must be some file used outside of TG.  The OpenGL drivers for my version of video card might have some kind of problem.  I've queried the public for examples of those running my particular OS and although there were only two responses so far, they both use much older, pro-grade nvidia drivers, different class than mine. (a Geforce card).  Neither of them have my tooltip problems.
I can't think of other outside code that TG might use.

Now, anybody have a suggestion about how to do any kind of diagnostics on my OpenGL drivers?  BTW, can Planetside clue me in on the exact version of OpenGL and/or extensions that they are working with?  What range of graphic cards? I guess I only need to know if they have XP with a Geforce card. (I've tested with both a 9500 and a 7xxx series.)

more edit: I tried turning down the HW acceleration in the Troubleshooting pane for the display.  When I finally got the slider to one notch above OFF, the tool-tips started working!  Since this is a rather crude way to operate, it's not a solution but I hope it might reveal something useful to Planetside.

shadowphile

latest check: TG2.1 works on my Work pc, which has SP3 on it but an ATI card.
This is more confirmation that the problem is confined not necessarily to SP3 but to certain Nvidia drivers. (as the thread on the general forum is indicating, as more replies come in.)

Oshyan

As far as I know our use of OpenGL is extremely basic. It may be OpenGL 2.0, but I wouldn't be surprised to find we're working exclusively with 1.0 functions to be honest. Without a complete rundown of functions we use, and a comparison of level of support from a given graphics card and particular drivers, I don't think going down that route of investigation will help. In other words you'd need so much detailed information from different sources that I think trial and error would be easier and faster.

- Oshyan

shadowphile

I agree.  Your answer helps though because it indicates you are NOT trying some fancy bleeding edge opengl function.
Since I was able to crank the HW accel on my video card down enough to make the tooltips work, I'm very opinionated at the moment that the OpenGL drivers for the GeForce cards are the culprit.  Not sure whether it is confined to just XP, just XP SP3, or what.
I currently have no idea where to investigate a solution.

jo

Hi,

I guess there is something about the way nvidia has stuff drawing over OpenGL content which is hostile to this. The funny thing is that the tooltips are actually in separate little windows which float over the top of the window displaying the tooltip so you'd think they'd be ok. I'm not doing anything particularly funny with them either, I'm using proper Windows tooltips. I don't really have any solutions right now. I will take a deeper look at this and if the graphics card in my PC is poked like I think it is I will consider replacing it with an nvidia card so I can investigate this more thoroughly. Through coincidence I have ATI cards in all of my machines, including the 3 I can run Windows on.

Tooltips on Windows are a frickin' nuisance. Something which should be so easy has caused so many hassles.

Regards,

Jo

SuddenPlanet

Quote from: shadowphile on January 25, 2010, 07:03:15 PM
latest check: TG2.1 works on my Work pc, which has SP3 on it but an ATI card.
This is more confirmation that the problem is confined not necessarily to SP3 but to certain Nvidia drivers. (as the thread on the general forum is indicating, as more replies come in.)

Why don't you try completely uninstalling your Nvidia video card drivers, and then re-installing whatever the latest driver for your card is from Nvidia's web site.

shadowphile

I have another lesser PC that I just setup with an Nvidia card, so the install is fresh on that one.  It also has the issue.