Can't move camera on the map

[jknow]

I've loaded a .ter terrain and when I click on the 'heightfield shader' in the top left I see the shader preview window. Unlike the help pdf file however my shader preview window doesn't have a zoom in/zoom out icon, and I can't seem to position the camera on that map.

In the old terragen it was very easy to position the observer and target by right clicking on the 2D map. I simply can't move the camera/observer in this version. I guess I could enter the coordinates, but I'd really like to navigate on the shader preview. How do I do that?

Many thanks indeed

[jknow]

OK I think I've figured it out.

I right click on heightfield shader to get a bigger new window. When you mouse over the funny white lines they become yellow, then click on the cross and grab the strange green ball to move the render camera position. Then in 3D preview select the view camera to be the current render camera.

Not obvious at all! But glad I've figured it out.

I'm trying to render a depth map (z buffer) of my terrain so I make a silhouette sketch map of the terrain, see attached. In ArcGIS the depth maps don't even use 8 bits of info, so I'm hoping I can export a 16 or 32 bit depth map from Terragen.

I then use a simple VB program to traverse down each column looking for discontinuities in the depth map. These are where hill silhouettes are.

[jknow]

Rendering a distance map using the distance shader was easier than I thought it would be! Hooray!

But the values I get from white to black, corresponding to the terrain's distance from my camera position, are only 8 bit, ie from 0 to 255. Does anyone know if it's possible to save the results of a distance shader to 16 or 32 bit? I appreciate that most monitors wouldn't be able to distinguish between this level of detail, but for my needs it would be very helpful.

Which failing, can anyone suggest a computer graphics environment that would provide a 16 bit depth map / distance map from an elevation matrix? Thank you so much.

[neuspadrin]

OK I think I've figured it out.

I right click on heightfield shader to get a bigger new window. When you mouse over the funny white lines they become yellow, then click on the cross and grab the strange green ball to move the render camera position. Then in 3D preview select the view camera to be the current render camera.

Check out around minute 3 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOIp5o5yySA&feature=PlayList&p=FCB689245783556D&index=0

Covers mouse movement around.

Once you find a spot you like, you set the render camera, and your good to go.

(and man i need to make a better quality video with a better mic, haha, my computer's fan on that old computer was SOOO LOUD)

[jknow]

Thanks. What surprised me was that as I moved around in the 3D preview window using alt etc, there was no real time update in the map. Normally when you move camera and target you get an automatically updating display on the plan form map?

Anyway, now that that problem is figured, I'd be really interested to know if I can do 16+ bit depth maps. Thanks again

[shadowphile]

Can you export your depth image as an exr?   That'll probably have absolute (float) values instead of relative values but still seems usable if you don't mind some post-processing.

[Oshyan]

The reason the camera doesn't move around when you move in the 3D preview is because it doesn't update the actual camera position until you "Set Camera". Once you do that, it should update.

If you render a distance map, just save as EXR, that will be 32 bit HDR. You can convert to some other format with an HDR image editing app if need be.

- Oshyan

[jknow]

SWEET! I will learn about this new format. I was pretty sure TG2 would be able to do some kind of HDR thing. Thanks guys

[jknow]

I am still REALLY struggling to get the camera exactly where I want it in TG2. In 0.9x it was wonderfully easy to see the .ter data using the Landscape View window, which would display an appropriately scaled greyscale view of the elevation to make it easy to distinguish high ground from low ground. All that was required was an easy right or left click.

In TG2 by contrast the terrain View Window is a pale grey and I can't figure out how to change the color ramp to something more effective. I want to treat the Heightfield view as a map, not the landscape. It should have a white to black stretched symbology for working with elevation data.

What trick am I missing? Thanks

[Henry Blewer]

Do some of your initial shadings first. Just a couple, like 'rock' for the vertical surfaces and 'sands' for the flatter areas. Just use the main colors you might choose.
This might help since the landscape might look a little more natural.

There is also the navigation controls on the right side of the preview.

[jknow]

I saw there's an option called Shade by Height in the Colour tab of the Heightfield shader. But even when enlarged the View Window is still no match for a dedicated map windows - look at the horrid texture of the base map in the example below compared to the lovely fine grained view in 0.9x, also attached.

I'm convinced I'm missing something here, there must be a dedicated 2D map overview that I haven't yet found, possibly?

[Oshyan]

There isn't a dedicated 2D map overview, although you can use the overhead camera preset in the main 3D view if you wish. Primary camera movement is intended to be accomplished with 3D preview movement controls, including keyboard/mouse combination, keyboard-only shortcuts, or the movement "widget" in the upper-right of the 3D preview. Believe it or not it's actually a (generally) more effective method since you can more or less see the scene in a rough state of how it will be when rendered as you move.

The view is not as smooth and static as the 3D preview in TG Classic though because everything is done procedurally, meaning it's computed at display/render time, and this is one reason why a dedicated 2D map will never be exactly the same in smoothness and response as TG Classic. We're dealing with a whole planet now, rather than just a finite terrain, and the introduction of arbitrary-scale, planet-wide procedurals with virtually "infinite" detail makes pre-visualization rather difficult, if not impossible. So basically it's a trade-off for increased detail and terrain flexibility.

The reason you're finding camera movement in the 2D Shader preview window difficult is because it's not designed to be used that way. We do plan improvements in the shader previews which should make doing this easier, but ultimately it really is not intended as the primary camera movement method, and is somewhat impractical for moving around a whole planet anyway. It's possible we'll find some creative ways to better view this data in the future. In the meantime I highly suggest you try to familiarize yourself with moving using the 3D preview.

- Oshyan

[jknow]

Thanks Oshyan. I'll try to get used to it. I think it's a bit of a culture shock coming from my GIS background where I'm used to seeing the height data projected in plan form. I think this is more of an issue for those of us working with 'real world' data, where the focus is more on locating a specific place rather than browsing around a fictitious landscape until things look nice.

I'm aware we can move the camera by typing the coordinates, but this is one level removed from the standard 0.9x approach.

I guess it's a planet issue as you say. But it does make working with imported height data rather inconvenient.

My data start life as UK OSGB, then I crop out squares and export them to .ter using landserf. IF they don't import the first time then I'll open and save from TG0.9x, that works well. When I open the data in TG2 they are in metres, which is correct. I haven't bothered georeferencing them using lat/long, but I'm hoping since TG2 knows the units are metres it will scale them appropriately for earth curvature. Is that correct? Or do I need to do an extra step to account for earth curvature?

Moreover, does TG2 account for atmospheric refraction? Depending on the conditions, this normally attenuates effects of curvature by about a 7th. So, if there's no way to adjust atmospheric refraction, the alternative would be to slightly increase the diameter of the earth so as to decrease curvature slightly. That of course will distort the haze and any other distance dependent shading, but at least obejcts will appear geometrically better. Atmospheric reaction exerts a profound impact of long range views, ie from mountain tops, so it's essential we can model it. Thanks

[Oshyan]

TG2 does not account for atmospheric refraction. It does accounts for curvature with heightfields, although I don't think it works 100%, particularly far from the coordinate origin.

- Oshyan

[jo]

Hi,

You can open a new 3D Preview from the View menu, using "3D Preview in New Window", or by context clicking on the 3D Preview in the main window and choosing "Open in New Window". You can then set the 3D Preview in the new window to the Top View. Zoom out until you can see the camera object and then you can move it around. As you move it the 3D Preview in the main window will update to show the view from the new location, as long as it's set to be showing the Render Camera anyway.

Unfortunately right now you can only use this technique to change the camera position and not the orientation or look-at point etc., but it can be helpful.

Regards,

Jo