Hi guys,
I've started something, still WIP, using the NWDA Pines. Actually the senery is inspired by Choronr's render.
As you can see I'm not yet finished, still a few things to touch up, such as the distant shore for example, and the water (I don't like how the water came out).
I have to be careful with not creating too much self shadowing + receiving other shadows in the canopy - TG2's GI can't cope with that very good yet, so I may rearrange the trees in the foreground.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
This is a link to the image (there's too much compression artifacts for this kind of render at <500kB... )
http://www.nwdanet.com/images/by%20the%20lake%208b.jpg
Thanks,
Frank
thats some serious playing ;-) Great work so far.
sometimes it works very fine to render a second pass with lights adjusted for the "dark problem". Then add this in Photoshop to the regular render.
yeah i might try that, or use the higher dynamic range of an exr file for that. Might be faster... I haven't tried that yet.
Could you just adjust the exposure within terragen itself or add an environment light but have it effect the terrain only by unchecking atmosphere?
I could adjust the exposure but that affects everything. Adding or increasing GI strength also affects everything (bright parts and dark parts, even if I restrict to surface only). What I would need is TG2 to be different and truly let rays pass through transparent object parts :)
There might be another solution. I could increase the shadow color in the atmosphere, so "things" won't cast as dark shadows, but I don't know if this will introduce other problems. Or I change the sun angle and heading to a more tree-smothering position - heck, I'm the producer AND the artist in unison, so I'm free to do what I want! ;)
I'd add a second atmosphere and in that 2nd atmosphere set haze density to 3 or 4 and raise haze exp height to 8000.
Set ambient to 1 and disable "primary".
Connect the second atmosphere to the first and start rendering.
Do you want brighter shadows? Increase haze density and/or ambient of second atmosphere.
Do you want darker shadows? Do the opposite.
Does that help?
Cheers,
Martin
I don't know, maybe. I just don't want more haze, that's the problem. I already have a strong GI contribution from the sky (increased background object color).
wow! i really like this one, reminds me of the sink hole lakes we have scattered around florida
my only problem with the image is the mid ground, does'nt looks quite right to me.
true, the mid-ground isn't quite there yet
Quote from: FrankB on August 29, 2011, 03:29:59 PM
I don't know, maybe. I just don't want more haze, that's the problem. I already have a strong GI contribution from the sky (increased background object color).
You won't get more haze, that's because you disable "primary".
not sure how this is different from upping the shadow color with just one atmosphere. Have you actually tried this yourself, yet?
And adding more haze adds more haze, primary or not... I would reckon.
Quote from: FrankB on August 29, 2011, 03:44:31 PM
not sure how this is different from upping the shadow color with just one atmosphere. Have you actually tried this yourself, yet?
And adding more haze adds more haze, primary or not... I would reckon.
Here's when I used it first:
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=10538.0 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=10538.0)
Used it a couple more times after that one.
Looks good , Frank!
........................................................................
Try adjusting the atmosphere's ambient lighting higher. Turn up the fake dark power and then lower the camera exposure.
The atmosphere's ambient light will start to wash out the image. The fake dark power will bring the shadows back, but it will still be washed out. The camera exposure will bring it all back to 'normal'.
You can also change the enviro light to ambient occlusion. Then use the sunlight for highlighting.
Nice image, Frank. Another way to add ambient fill lighting is to use a sphere with a constant white colour shader. Switch off the sphere's shadow casting and visibility to camera, copy the coords and radius from the planet to the sphere and double the radius.
Quote from: JimB on August 29, 2011, 07:47:02 PM
Nice image, Frank. Another way to add ambient fill lighting is to use a sphere with a constant white colour shader. Switch off the sphere's shadow casting and visibility to camera, copy the coords and radius from the planet to the sphere and double the radius.
That's a great idea. Does the illumination setting need to be increased? (This may be my stupid question of the day)
Here is a second iteration. Still WIP, but getting closer. I forgot to switch on soft lights though. My grass population on the far shore doesn't extend enough to the left. also, the far shore grasses are too bright.
I have better shadow lighting now from using an ambient occlusion light in addition, and from making better use of the exr output.
http://www.nwdanet.com/images/by%20the%20lake%2010b.jpg
Regards,
Frank
this is shaping up well Frank....very nice!
Looks great, Frank. The only part I'm not so sure of is the yellow grassy area across the lake. Otherwise, beautiful! :)
Henry, the default background node is black so adding colour and/or luminosity is a good way to increase ambient lighting. You might remember I wrote about using an inverted sphere to encapsulate the scene in my TG2 GI examples page a while ago. https://sites.google.com/site/d4nd310/tg2gi
I can almost feel the scrapes on my hands from those ragged bushes we're crouched in! ;)
I agree with Martin about the yellow grassy area.
Honestly I think the lighting in the second version is quite inferior and cheaper looking than the first one.
The first was much more natural.
I know we differ in opinion about lighting a scene and that you like it contrasty, but I think you got a bit carried away this time ;)
I probably need a few more iterations to get this to 100% right. I like the foreground as is. Midground I'm working on, and background is kinda ok. The lighting as mentioned isn't ideal yet but a lot of that can be adjusted in post. Just need to find the right "workflow" for this scene. I don't want the sky to be so blown out white.
Cheers,
Frank
Looking forward to those as it definitely is a great scene :)
why is there funny looking cone shape poking from middle tree? I never see this in real trees, could make better by more noise and more segments.
for lighting, can also use overbright cards in scene to make natural looking reflected light, terra does not do the light most good and ray tracing is only sketchy, needs to include final gather for best looking.
Quote from: TheOne on August 30, 2011, 03:48:00 PM
why is there funny looking cone shape poking from middle tree? I never see this in real trees, could make better by more noise and more segments.
for lighting, can also use overbright cards in scene to make natural looking reflected light, terra does not do the light most good and ray tracing is only sketchy, needs to include final gather for best looking.
I agree about the coneshape, for distant renders it's not an issue, but for close up it might look a bit odd.
Final Gather, suppose you mean it from a mental ray point of view, is an algorithm for indirect lighting/colour bleeding.
In TG2 this algorithm basically is GI and I bet that has been used here.
The postwork which I already commented on makes it look very contrasty as if it only uses direct lighting.
One of the most difficult set ups to work with in a scene is when the sun is over your shoulders. You struggle getting the atmo right. I would be tempted to try the sun's position either from the right or left side just to see what you come up with.
Your image is approaching the wow factor Frank, I believe you're going to get there soon ...looking very good.
Here is a version from yesterday evening, a little smaller in dimensions this time though. I've worked a bit on the far shore primarily.
It's still hard to get the lighting of shadows just right. I'll experiment further with this.
http://www.nwdanet.com/images/by%20the%20lake%2011c.jpg
The shadows on the tree trunks look very good. Somehow they are nearly lost on the grass objects.
I am not sure what Walli built the pines with. They seem to render very dark.
nah, don't give too much about the lighting on the rendered images so far, there is a lot of postwork in these, and I haven't always done a good job with that. Now, the pines textures are just right. There is no issue with them. But in pines, there are needles over needles stacked over each other, and one branch casting shows on the next, and all is very very dense, and all the time one shadow is added to another. It's just a TG2 GI problem coping with that. It's a tough job for the renderer. But I think I can work around some of those limitations.
Regards,
Frank
Looking very good so far, Frank. The latter one has an old fashioned lighting effect to it, like postcards from the '50. Expressing a very warm and pleasant summer's day. You might find a perfect mix between iteration 1 and the latest, regarding light.
And perhaps it's good to rotate the object -90 degrees to get rid of that one straight branch, which is sticking out like Pinocchio's nose. That's one thing that bothers me.
I have asked Walli to look at this particular model again. The twig reminds me of your (Dune's) forum avatar ;)
Otherwise the image is coming along now. I have made a few more changes, and now I am rendering a version that could become the final one, or close to it.
Cheers,
Frank
woah, dude, this one gave me the creeps! after 5.5 hours of rendering the image was kinda finished, but Terragen 2 wasn't responding anymore! It wasn't completely dead, I figured out is was reading like mental from the pagefile. After 10 or so minutes it came back to life... pheeew.
Now here it is. This is my final. Only slight level adjustment this time. I though I'd render large so that TG2's GI has an easier life, and it worked! Check it out http://img.skitch.com/20110831-ktgg6c863w4kxi422n82f1fhpf.jpg
Attention, 3.2 MB large, 4000x2200 px.
Cheers and thanks for being with me on this little journey!
Frank
Ah, you nailed it fine this time Frank. The details close up are top notch; and, the atmosphere looks perfect. I'm still hung up on my original version except for a few minor adjustments like adding a second sun to light up the greenery a bit ....coming soon.
Thanks Bob! Yours will be awesome when it's done!
Awesome piece, Frank. Very subtle lighting, great sand (I like the pureness of it, you really want to be there) and a good ad for the trees.
many thanks :)
I'd like to add a few stats and facts:
1) There were 13 populations used in this render
- 5 HD pines (http://www.nwdanet.com/buy/8-object-packs/12-trees/64-hq-pine-tree-bundle)
- Walli's Fresh Grass 3 (http://www.nwdanet.com/buy/8-object-packs/9-grasses/33-wild-grass-fresh-pack-3)
- Walli's Dry Grass (http://www.nwdanet.com/buy/8-object-packs/9-grasses/54-dry-grass-bundle)
- 3 species of the Dry Bush Bundle (http://www.nwdanet.com/buy/8-object-packs/11-bushes/34-dry-bush-bundle-pack)
- 2 populations of FrankB Better Grass (http://store.nwdanet.com/terragen2store/13-objects/16-grass/85-frankb-better-grass.html) (those are free)
- 1 population of Rock. I have used an experimental technique which might find it's way into the Fake Stone and Hero Rock (http://www.nwdanet.com/buy/7-preset-packs/24-fake-stone-and-hero-rock-pack-v2) Pack
2) This was rendered on a core i7 8GB machine in 5.5 hours at 4000x2200px. The project needed over 6GB peak memory.
3) Detail = 0.7, AA = 4, GI = 2/3 + SSP
4) Again forgot the soft light :/
5) I have used the general purpose camouflage surface (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=13078.0) for the terrain under the trees, which I have shared here on the forum.
6) An additional Enviro light set to ambient occlusion was employed with 0 strength on atmo but 1.6 strength on surface
7) the color of the background sphere was set to 0.35 to help the GI algorithms catch some light ;)
8 ) The "beach" uses the Sand Shader Pack (http://www.nwdanet.com/buy/7-preset-packs/40-sand-shader-pack) from TU
8) I had a lot of fun and will do more like that :)
Cheers,
Frank
looks fanastic frank, especially at that resolution :)
wow 6gigs... !!!
Thanks for the update Frank; and, looking forward to your next project with these trees.
Excellent for sure.. but I prefered the first POV (the centered tree disturbs me a bit..) ;D
luc
Quote from: Luc Bianco on September 01, 2011, 03:06:12 PM
Excellent for sure.. but I prefered the first POV (the centered tree disturbs me a bit..) ;D
luc
but it's an especially beautiful one, don't you think? Let's forgive him for standing in the way :)
I forgive him :)
picture is of good place I like but I see pine trees with roots in standing water die, need to have drainage to live. make trees in water none and make tree branches more real to be better looking. grass is ok but too many. 6gb memory not that many I use 6x4gb modules for 24 gb of ram (Corsair Dominator-GT 24 GB : 6 x 4 GB Memory - DIMM 240-pin - 2000 MHz ( PC3-16000 )) is more than sufficient for most task.