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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Dune on June 09, 2011, 03:52:10 am

Title: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 09, 2011, 03:52:10 am
I had another go at a volcano, but need to get it better still. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Kadri on June 09, 2011, 05:28:20 am

I would make the volcano 2 or 3 times bigger and bring the cam of course back to get the similar frame .
You are mostly there , Dune !
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 09, 2011, 05:50:49 am
I think you need more cloud coverage downwind. This looks like it may have been 'smoking' for quite a while.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: microwar on June 09, 2011, 06:07:28 pm
Maby add som glowing light inside the crater ?
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 10, 2011, 04:19:05 am
Another version. I like the contrast between the white snow and the black smoke (though I'm still looking for those fat boiling cloud billows). I used a clip file for the foreground, I believe it's Domdib's rock face.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 10, 2011, 07:51:30 am
This is better than the other version. I still think you need more dark clouds downwind, like the Iceland volcano that has been so active lately.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: JimB on June 10, 2011, 09:04:22 am
Try plugging a colour adjustment shader between your density fractal and the cloud layer input, and play with the sliders. It might help get rid of those smaller orphan clumps of cloud offset from the plume. Personally, I also think you should make the plume not so dark, the cloud fractal detail smaller, and the plume edges harder.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Augustine_Volcano_Jan_12_2006_edited-1.jpg
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 10, 2011, 09:15:56 am
Thanks Jim, good to hear from you again. Nice reference. I sometimes use that adjust trick, so I might have to add it again.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: jbest on June 11, 2011, 08:37:43 pm
Hey dune, it's looking nice!!

One simple suggestion: There should be smoke or dust all around the volcano. At the moment it looks like either the volcano is shooting ash 100,000 miles per hour or is shooting ash like a hose, so that the outside of the volcano is untouched. I mean, it looks real, but i think the volcano "ash" should be
"bigger" and "fatter."
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 12, 2011, 03:25:23 am
I did check some images for how it should look, and I now mainly use the reference Jim added, which is a nice one. I used warped simple shapes as a basis, but now use a painted shader, which is much easier to get the cloud's 'look' alright. And I did add ashes/soot at one side of the cone, but not obvious enough yet.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: neon22 on June 12, 2011, 06:52:25 am
You'll see some nice images if you google "ruapehu eruption" as well.
Similar ash cloud venting behaviour
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: bla bla 2 on June 12, 2011, 08:44:48 am
J'aime bien la deuxième image.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: choronr on June 12, 2011, 01:48:08 pm
I like the shape of the smoke of the first image from a composition standpoint. Maybe a zoom backward for the POV and broadening the very top of the smoke so as to extend to more from left to right. I also like the addition of the snow of the second image.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 13, 2011, 02:41:06 am
Slowly getting there, but now I want to bend and widen the cloud sideways, like it's windblown. It can be done! And I will have a go at some erosion of the volcano cone...
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: freelancah on June 13, 2011, 07:41:48 am
I thought about making a cone shaped cloud  by projecting a circle thru a camera that was facing upwards.. The camera FOV controls the cone angle and that gets warped with twist and shear and a power fractal.. .. Also a distance shader with a camera placed to a specific place to get a more massive cloud to the back of the smoke trail..  If you modify the projected circle towards an ellipse you could get different kind of shapes..Like more windblown effect etc...

I havent tested this yet...just a thought but I imagine it should work. Will try this evening :P
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 13, 2011, 12:24:18 pm
That should work, theoretically. Curious to see what you come up with.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 15, 2011, 07:54:22 am
Another version.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: inkydigit on June 15, 2011, 10:00:44 am
that ash cloud/smoke is awesome!
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: inkydigit on June 15, 2011, 10:06:42 am
Quote from: freelancah on June 13, 2011, 07:41:48 am
I thought about making a cone shaped cloud  by projecting a circle thru a camera that was facing upwards.. The camera FOV controls the cone angle and that gets warped with twist and shear and a power fractal.. .. Also a distance shader with a camera placed to a specific place to get a more massive cloud to the back of the smoke trail..  If you modify the projected circle towards an ellipse you could get different kind of shapes..Like more windblown effect etc...

I havent tested this yet...just a thought but I imagine it should work. Will try this evening :P


I used a conical cloud bounded by a 1 pixel image(white png) projected using several cameras to eliminate the squareness, I could have used a circle though...
here is the link:

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=11473.msg117359#msg117359 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=11473.msg117359#msg117359)
:)
I dont mean to Hijack Ulco...
:)
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: freelancah on June 15, 2011, 10:17:29 am
There was an issue with projecting it with camera. It apparently does not warp. I think it misses some "get texture coord" thingy that is vital for the warper to function. Not sure yet, havent had time to read on it yet.
Anyhow I got it working when I used simple shape shader instead of camera projected cloud. Rendering some examples atm
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 15, 2011, 10:46:51 am
Looking great Ulco!

To emphasize the scale of the scene you could consider adding trees, especially some nice firs for instance :)
A specific reason for me to actually do this is because I think the thick snow somehow messes with the scale of your mountain.
It makes the mountain look like a bump, rather than a huge ass volcano. Somehow.
I think adding trees and maybe a tad bit more haze fixes this.

Quote from: freelancah on June 15, 2011, 10:17:29 am
There was an issue with projecting it with camera. It apparently does not warp. I think it misses some "get texture coord" thingy that is vital for the warper to function. Not sure yet, havent had time to read on it yet.
Anyhow I got it working when I used simple shape shader instead of camera projected cloud. Rendering some examples atm


A through camera projection uses "world coordinates" while you need "texture coordinates" to apply a warp to it.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 17, 2011, 02:20:10 am
Thanks again, Martin, also for your PM+attachment. I had some trees along the way, but deleted them again, not being satisfied. I've now put 3 pops in (+ extra haze), but I'll probably change the surface, perhaps even into something completely different, like a forest+meadows. Once I got the volcano+cloud alright. I realize the former has a better cloud.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 17, 2011, 07:26:15 am
The trees help with the sense of scale. This has been a great thread to watch.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Seth on June 17, 2011, 11:19:31 am
the trees look very big to me.
it looks less huge now than without them.
maybe just a matter of taste though
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 17, 2011, 11:29:32 am
Quote from: Seth on June 17, 2011, 11:19:31 am
the trees look very big to me.
it looks less huge now than without them.
maybe just a matter of taste though


I agree. The way I envision it is with trees 2 or 3 times smaller.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Seth on June 17, 2011, 11:34:51 am
yep, exactly
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: choronr on June 17, 2011, 09:06:38 pm
I agree that the trees could be smaller it suit the scale of the terrain; also, perhaps the smoke could widen as it approaches higher elevations. The effect of wind moving the smoke to the right the smoke is good. In all, I know you will be tweaking this very good creation some more. 
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 18, 2011, 03:03:06 am
I agree. Started out with the 'wrong' dimensions. The whole volcano is actually only about 500m wide. On this next try the trees are already reduced to 0.7 times their original size and then again sizes from 0.4-0.9. I think I'll start from scratch with world sizes for the volcano (which I might want to make differently anyway, perhaps WM), or reduce the trees more if necessary.
I am now struggling to get the cloud cone right (softness distribution, angle, angle smoothness, starting height, width, cloud settings); it's getting more complicated the more I want to refine, and I actually would like to keep it simple (for my own sake, or I won't understand anymore what I did yesterday). Will be followed up...

Perhaps I should call it 'Baby Volcano'.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: DutchDimension on June 18, 2011, 07:06:32 am
Coming along very nicely Dune.

Here's some more reference/inspiration for you, courtesy of Chile:
http://blogs.publico.es/mesadeluz/4195/el-volcan-puyehue (http://blogs.publico.es/mesadeluz/4195/el-volcan-puyehue)
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: freelancah on June 18, 2011, 07:24:10 am
Keep it up. Looks much better! I got inspired by this and decided to revive my old volcano project too :P
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 19, 2011, 03:16:51 am
Hey, those are great reference, DD. Thanks. I also knew this morning (half asleep) I had made a crucial mistake in my warps (based on Y and should be on X), and anxiously going to work again. By the way, I'll probably use this as a basis for my next generation of ash cloud.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 20, 2011, 03:31:19 am
Two more tries... still working on the perfect cone.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 20, 2011, 08:49:24 am
I like the ridges/strata on the second render better. The clouds/smoke is very good.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: ra on June 20, 2011, 04:56:18 pm
I really like "cratertest-180611_horizontal cloud_1.jpg". The ash cloud is absolutely fantastic in that one!
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 22, 2011, 03:02:06 am
I'm not done yet, but still not satisfied. The cloud is too rough, I'd like it to look more bulbous somehow. I'm also still looking for the best cloud settings for a grayish ash. I now only decreased the enviro light to 0.2, but it's not good enough.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 22, 2011, 07:47:36 am
I think the lower, near the crater cloud is really good. The upper portion where the wind and natural diffusion distribute the cloud would be better with billows.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: freelancah on June 22, 2011, 11:02:04 am
Im having much difficulty  to do some ash "plumes" or similar billowy type smoke too. Also, I accidentally stumbled into something that looks more like a long exposure photo rather than a pure still shot, which I thought was pretty cool.  Unfortunately it takes quite a bit of time to render so progress is slow.

Anyhow keep up the good work! I hope we both get to finish this with some nice ashclouds :P

Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 22, 2011, 11:59:14 am
I harked back to the good old simple shape again for the next render, which I will post tomorrow. It is very hard indeed! You need the density and sizes just right to make it convincing.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 22, 2011, 12:08:25 pm
Hi Ulco,

Could you send me a setup of your crater with billowy clouds?
I'd like to give it a try/go, if possible :)

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Mor on June 23, 2011, 03:06:27 am
This one is developing nicely. I like the cratertest-180611_horizontal cloud_1.jpg best so far.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 24, 2011, 05:14:17 am
Almost got it, but not quite yet. I'll PM you, Martin...
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: bla bla 2 on June 24, 2011, 09:45:43 am
J'ajouterai quelques nuage avec des traits à la verticale.
Des jets de laves.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 24, 2011, 11:56:09 am
Peut-être. La premiere probleme c'est le 'cloud', so to speak.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Kadri on June 24, 2011, 12:07:57 pm

NOOO! Rhalph , where are you when we need you?  ;D
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 25, 2011, 02:38:32 am
Who's Ralph?  >:(
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: choronr on June 25, 2011, 03:26:35 am
I like this last version; yet, the cloud pattern you achieved on the very first image looks best to me. The other thing to consider is the contrast of the smoke where it first comes out of the cone is a sharp contrast to the cone itself. Maybe some haze at the apex of the cone making it a bit fuzzy.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Kadri on June 25, 2011, 03:59:39 am
Quote from: Dune on June 25, 2011, 02:38:32 am
Who's Ralph?  >:(


http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=12643.msg125932#msg125932

It was a joke (with a big grin) ! Is there a problem now Dune?
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Dune on June 26, 2011, 03:03:41 am
 ;D No problem, of course not.
Title: Re: Volcano II
Post by: Kadri on June 26, 2011, 07:13:43 am

:)