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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: dandelO on October 22, 2013, 11:14:01 pm

Title: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 22, 2013, 11:14:01 pm
Some sound.

By Terrade(Redwolf here) and myself.

http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/30286456/file.html

HotlemonAde & dandelO - 2013.

Cheers! :)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: inkydigit on October 23, 2013, 05:14:04 pm
thanks Martin and Ade... I enjoyed that...! Epic proggy feel!
cheers
Jason
:)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: matrix2003 on October 24, 2013, 02:19:22 pm
Definitely Prog. I like the phase shifty metronome.

All it needs now is a Hammond B-3, some spinning speakers and a large room!  8)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: inkydigit on October 24, 2013, 04:42:58 pm
oooh and a light show!
and smoke
and lasers
and...
:)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 24, 2013, 06:29:25 pm
Cheers, Jason, Bill. :)
Jason, Ade said he'd sent you some tracks before but nothing really came of it, we've just been working remotely, maybe a pile of us musos could get together for some collab? I know we've got pretty different tastes and styles of music but I know I listen to, and like to make anything, that could make for some cool messed up tracks. The original 'Pastlives' was pretty different to what you hear there, after I got my hands on it. Imagine a gang of us throwing some tracks around, could be fun.
Anyone else, too. I know a few of you here are musicians, Efflux, Matt, Rids, Danny G(you do a bit of mixing, don't you?). Anyone up for some messing around, just for fun?
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 24, 2013, 06:38:49 pm
Quote from: inkydigit on October 24, 2013, 04:42:58 pm
oooh and a light show!
and smoke
and lasers
and...
:)

Some mushric majrooms, huh, Inky? :D
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: matrix2003 on October 24, 2013, 09:42:41 pm
If you guys drive ...    :P
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 24, 2013, 10:31:53 pm
No need for wheels when you have an internet, Bill. You got some sounds to jam? Maybe some ancestral bagpipes? ;)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on October 25, 2013, 10:25:35 am
Hey Martin,do you have any idea which free program to use for collab purposes?
Especially if ones computer has no decent sound card?
And thus no midi.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 25, 2013, 12:11:51 pm
I've used FLStudio for years, it's really great, there is a demo version but I'm not sure what the restrictions are or if it's a timed demo. For editing direct waves I use Wavepad which also has a free version, I've done a good bit of editing with that alone just cutting and splicing. Audacity is completely free and is quite the same program as Wavepad.
I'll have a look and see what I can see for a free studio app...
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 25, 2013, 12:33:33 pm
Found Darkwave Studio, looks pretty good and allows you to import any VST/VSTi instrument plugins, there are loads of those around for free, from drum kits to trumpets. It looks like a pretty capable program with loads of features. It's free.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 25, 2013, 12:39:06 pm
And, FLStudio is fully functional in demo mode, the only restriction is strangely, that you can save files but not reopen them again.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on October 25, 2013, 12:52:11 pm
The first time you mentioned FLstudio (some years ago) I had a look,but didn't
download it.Then some time later I wanted to try it,but they had cut the free
version so much that I lost interest.
Had a look at Audacity,too,tried some audio conversions and stuff.Never tried
multitrack recording though.
Also looked at Krystal,good recording app,but didn't work with these realtek
sound solutions back then.Don't know about the newer realtek thingies.
Still have Krystal somewhere.
Will look at Darkwave Studio.
Do you think Audacity will do the job,if we share music files to add tracks?
Real instruments and electronic/digital ones?
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 25, 2013, 03:38:06 pm
For multitracking I imagine Audacity will have pretty minimal functions, like basic merging of separate .wav files into one and the like. There may be more options but I'd definitely go for a dedicated studio application for that. I'd use Audacity mainly for finalising tracks, normalising, EQ, things like that. I have, when I was teaching myself direct wave manipulation, made entire patterns and tracks from existing waves to be used elsewhere but just as an excercise really, the task I set myself was to do a remix edit of a friend's material with no effects or studio programs, using only his wave files, chopping and pasting etc. as one track.
I'm reading mixed reviews about this Darkwave, some say it's great, others not so, never tried it myself so I really couldn't say. Also looked for plugins to allow importing .Flp files that I use but I can't find any.
Tonight I'll uninstall my FLS and put it back in without my license, the packages are all the same for all editions so I'll check out what I can do in default demo mode and see if it would be any good, it says fully functional so, even if actual .flp files can't be shared, exported .wav and .mp3 files could be. That's all we really need, those can easily be imported via audio clip layers, you'd just need to agree on a certain bpm to work on and things could easily be done with whatever patterns and track sequences we shared. I'll go and revert to demo mode and check it out now...
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 25, 2013, 03:50:06 pm
There's also an optional extra add-on with the FL installer called Collab that I haven't used yet, the name says it all, it's for exactly the purpose we're talking about.

* It's a registered user only feature actually.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 25, 2013, 04:47:31 pm
Well, yes, the demo pretty much does everything, a few specialist features aren't available but otherwise the only restriction is the inability to reopen any project files you save, until you register. I could open files saved in demo mode so they aren't machine-locked. All import/export functions work perfectly in demo and with the same quality settings as any other version. As many tracks as long or short as you want, whether they're single patterns or complete compositions. The least expensive registered version is the Express edition at $49 US, with free updates of new versions of your edition for life. It really is a great value application in my opinion.

I'd still check out Darkwave, though, it seems pretty good and is a full package and completely free apparently.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: archonforest on October 26, 2013, 02:49:54 am
U guys can chk out LMMS also. Free music studio. Pretty good quality sound. I used it some time ago.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on October 26, 2013, 04:18:09 am
Crank it back up again then, Archonforest! It'll be fun, if you have some spare time. :)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: archonforest on October 26, 2013, 11:35:43 pm
Yeah spare time...i should buy some as I am very short of it these days...I didn't played a game since 3 months! :D
Otherwise I am not a musician....I made some tracks before but none of them are really good. But what is in your mind? To make a track from scratch? I am not that good to mock up melodies but okay on drums and effect...etc.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on October 27, 2013, 11:17:06 am
Sorry for the delay,had no time to go online yesterday.
Yes,Darkwave seems to have nice features,but the mixed reviews suggest
to examine it closer and I don't have enough time these days.
So maybe it's better to try FLStudios demo version and see how far
we can get.
Maybe we should start a new thread for this and see who else is up
to join us.And then talk about what and how and so on.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: inkydigit on October 29, 2013, 04:25:37 pm
hey Martin...yeah must be that time of year!
and a collab would be cool and fun!!

:)
J
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 04, 2013, 01:56:46 pm
Found a bit more time than expected and read through some more
reviews of Darkwave Studio and there is at least one aspect I definitely
don't like at all,the additional software coming with it.
FL Studio should be able to read and write midi files,if I'm not mistaken.
So that could be a solution for file exchange,too.
Martin seems to be missing the last couple of days,maybe due to the storm,don't know.
Hope he'll be back soon.
Meanwhile we could try to clarify which file formats would be convenient for the
other paticipants.And which way(s) to work.
So,errh,speak up guys!
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 04, 2013, 08:50:02 pm
Hey! Actually, the storms were something of an anticlimax for lots of us in the UK. There were areas hit but nothing near what the news was predicting.
To be honest, I've simply been wasting time trolling and being a wanker on some Facebook groups that I like to make fun of when I've been online recently, as I'm sure some of you have seen. It's not big and it's not clever, I know this, but it is fun when an escape from reality is required! :D

So, on this music thing, I'm up for anything. Regarding files, I like to use .wav@32bit float for importing sound to edit, then once all editing is done I would render to 16 bit .wav for a finalised song in FL and then edit externally to 320.mp3 once everything is completed. Never used midi files but I could open them if need be.

So, what do we do? It's really strange starting something brand new with a bunch of other people, usually I'd just work on my own, or steal a friend's music and start editing away on that. I really don't know! Anyone have any ideas they'd like to kick around, anyone and everyone? I know I initiated this collab' idea but I'm honestly stuck on how to begin! What a twat! :/ :D
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: DannyG on November 05, 2013, 07:55:54 am
Bit late on this, yes Martin I do a bit of mixing, nothing serious for over 10 years now however. I would be up for some collab works. All my stuff is electronic. Generated from some analog tweak boxes and some older softwares Reason 3, Acid Loops 6. Acid makes for a fairly good multi-track recorder as well as other very usable features. Drop me a line you know my email 
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 05, 2013, 01:47:44 pm
Call me old fashioned,but shouldn't mixing and editing be the last things done?
As far as I can think of it one should first have something to edit or mix,like music
or at least some noise.
Midi files came to my mind,because I found that I'll run into trouble with almost
any musical software in conjunction with these fucking realtek devices.There is
asio4all.but that'no reliable solution either.But since I can use a Yamaha sequencer
that reads and writes midi files,that would be the solution for me.For producing
and combining musical tracks at least.Mixing is another thing.
I think we should decide what we want to do,piece of music with,at least,a basic structure
or an ambient soundtrack or a soundcollage.Do we want to develop something together or
should one of us provide a basic piece,like dr ,bass and keybds for example.
That kind of stuff.
Back in the 80s a bunch of somewhat famous musicians started a collab with a bassline
that was sent around and every participant added something,which is just another example.
Btw I have never done something like that,too,makes it kind of interesting. ;)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: archonforest on November 06, 2013, 03:06:00 am
Probably the 1st thing to do is to decide what format it suppose to be so different people can participate. If the formats are different then the mixing will be hell and the end product won't be nice. I would say some of the real musicians should come up with some idea/melody and then other stuff like drums, effects can be attached. I can do effects/drums...etc as I said before but not a real cool melody....
I would vote to use .wav format
Ohh...some of us might have some started song(s) that never finished...that can be a start for co op...
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 13, 2013, 10:53:00 am
Ok then who are the real musicians that are in?
As far as I know Martin and myself right now.
Anyone else?
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: inkydigit on November 13, 2013, 11:12:56 am
well... as I am not a real musician, I will not put my hand up yet! ;)
but it'd be cool to remix/rework/ completely mangle when you are done :))
if any bass/lead etc audio tracks are made available separately then that would be ideal...
cheers
Jason
:)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 24, 2013, 02:14:46 pm
The attachment is for Martin only,please respect that.
Thanks.

Edit - removed attachment.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: Dune on November 25, 2013, 02:50:38 am
When you say that, you're sure of a million downloads  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 25, 2013, 04:46:53 pm
I'll assume then, that I'm the only one that didn't download the thing!
Sorry, J. This has turned into a bit of a farce, eh! :D

Btw, as far as I'm concerned, like I said much earlier in this post when I brought it up, I really don't care who or how many people want to muck around with some sound manipulating fun, I never intended to limit it to just one project per person to work on. What I think would be good is everyone just post whatever files to the discussion that they want(if that's allowed, of course), that everyone and anyone can mess around with if they wanted, that would be ideal and would give everyone the most creative freedom to take it, manipulate it, repost their edit and the same thing happen again with that until a musical monster was born at the end of it. I'm fine with everyone diving in.

The problem I'm up against is my email client refuses to let me access any email attachments that are not image files. So I can't really trade files by email at the moment, it's a pain.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: PabloMack on November 25, 2013, 10:27:07 pm
Quote from: j meyer on November 13, 2013, 10:53:00 am
Ok then who are the real musicians that are in?
As far as I know Martin and myself right now.
Anyone else?


What do you call a "real musician"? A (semi)professional? I have composed music since 2003 using Cakewalk sequencers (Music Creator and Sonar with several plugins). Besides a 5-string and a little guitar, I don't physically play many musical instruments. Instead I score them and let my sequencer and soft-synths play them. I learned to read sheet music as a child and singing in a church choir. The NorthernSounds website is really great for listening to composers who use softsynths for their rendering. I actually composed a one hour DVD of music if anyone cares to listen to the free samples:

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pkmckneely

If you ask me, though, it sounds like dandelO is asking for a train-wreck. People are going to have to do a lot of coordination of timing which is very important in music. A spastic player sounds okay when people are talking but it makes music sound really bad.

BTW: I didn't download it either.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 26, 2013, 10:37:16 am
I didn't bring up the term real musician,but I for one use it to make a difference
between someone who actually plays an instrument(not necessarily on a pro level,
just knowing some chords and basic structures of music,like the 12 bar blues scheme
for instance) and the ones that do something with electronic devices without any
further knowledge.

Ok then,I'll attach the file again and who ever likes to do something to/with it feel free
to use it .It's a very basic Reggae fragment,2 bars intro/anacrusis followed by two
8 bar chunks.
Personally i would prefer to keep a common musical structure!
For midi compatibility reasons between brands I'll give you the note assignments
for the drumkit in use,too.
And the note assignments in use for the drum kit:
PGM 009  Room Kit
C#1 - side stick
A#/Bb0 - open rim shot
G2 - splash cymbal
A#/Bb1 - HiHat open
B0 - Bass drum M
C#2 - Crash cymbal1
F#1 - HiHat closed
G#/Ab2 - cowbell
F2 - Ride cymbal cup
D#/Eb2 - Ride cymbal
A1 - Room tom3

Looking forward to what will develop and have fun everyone,J.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 26, 2013, 11:37:08 am
Might indeed be a train wreck!
I for one love to edit and pass sounds around, only really done it with close friends that I see in day to day life. Recently Ade and myself done the title track here remotely and I think it worked very well. That just gave me the idea to have a little free-for-all. Whether that's a fail or not, I'm sure I can make something out of a basic skeleton that anyone else would be welcome to play with.
It's no big serious deal, just a bit of fun, someone makes a riff, posts it, anyone else makes an edit, posts it back, maybe there would be several different edits to the skeleton by multiple people, the next person might like to combine them all, add some live instruments, whatever. Take it easy and just play around. Also, I don't read music but have played for around 20 years, notation and theory is all very well but playing by ear and feeling is just as valid, in my opinion.
Regardless, I'll play around with -anything- at all, begining with this, Jochen. Thanks, I eventually got it! I'll open it up tonight.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: PabloMack on November 26, 2013, 12:53:01 pm
BTW: If anyone is interested, the Northern Sounds website is:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/

The "Listening Area" section often has some good music.

Quote from: dandelO on November 26, 2013, 11:37:08 am
Also, I don't read music but have played for around 20 years, notation and theory is all very well but playing by ear and feeling is just as valid, in my opinion.


To some extent, standard score notation is arcane and barbaric as it does not recognize that all of the black keys on a piano keyboard are mathematically of equal status and fundamentally no different from the white keys. An octave should include twelve keys that look the same. However, if they did look the same, then a pianist would have nothing to clue into as to which keys are what notes. Furthermore, the keys would have to be narrowed in order to fit the same number of equal keys in the same amount of space. There should be no such thing as flats or sharps and the notes should be named A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,H,K,L and not A~G with sharps and flats. However, if musical notation was done that way, even though it represents reality better than the standard, you would need seven or eight horizontal lines on the staff in order to place the equivalent number of notes onto it as compared to the standard way of doing it. So "doing it right" would make it more difficult to navigate and interpret what is written, but those problematic sharps and flats would be gone (I hate them).

Furthermore, in my opinion, the terms "half step" and "full step" are misnomers. The only reason why the notion of a "half step" has any validity is that two adjacent notes on a keyboard are always regarded as being in discordance, which in itself is often useful to impart a feeling of grief or conflict. Another thing that is necessary to really understand music is that an octave is a power of two. When the log base 2 is taken of the frequency of the notes, they all appear equally spaced along a continuum. The intruiging thing to me about music as we perceive it is how these frequencies play out to be hormonious or discordant to one another. It is very interesting that notes that are used in the same chord can seem to be in perfect harmony with one another while they are really not. They are just close enough that we can't tell they are not. This is true and it is the reason why some pianos are specially tuned for certain musical pieces so that the chords used in the notes will be mathematically more perfect in harmony. The trade-off, of course, is that, if left in that state, the piano will sound more out of tune when the same piece is played in another key (or another piece using different chords).

Any way you standardize notation is necessarily fraught with compromises and could never please everyone. I am afraid we are stuck with standard western musical notation. Those who really object can use special sequencer notations which have their own problems.
While sequencers can represent music any way they like, and these might be closer to reality, standard music notation, as problematic as it is, is better understood by more people than any other form of written music. That's why I use it.

Sorry. I guess that was another one of my tirades.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 26, 2013, 07:40:07 pm
Something I've recently taken a real shine to is a move away from concert pitch. All my instruments are now tuned to the Solffegio scheme, which I believe through first reading up on and then experiencing in actuality myself, is more 'in tune' with the human vibration. Most people accept today that everything, be it entity, force, soundwave, etc. contains, coded into its very make up, a particular resonance/vibration. The step up to Solffegio from Concert is very minimal but, with a honed ear for music and harmony, makes a World of difference! The harmonic ring and whistle behind every note is so much more enhanced and beautiful to me, it is actually unbelievable. To an untrained ear, the difference may not be apparent but I would definitely say, and I've tested this directly, that the slight raise in pitch to Solffegio sounds so much more bright and sensible, when heard back to back on two separately tuned instruments.
To recallibrate your pitch to this scheme involves, on guitar my instrument of choice, a raise from Base A=440hz to A=444hz, which takes the middle C to 528hz. You might not think that such a small difference would have any benefit but I urge anyone to try it and see/hear for themselves, really.

Further, and this might sound bizzarre to most, I can't remember where reading this but I think it holds some weight: The music industry bigshots know about this 'nearer the human resonance' idea, and actively use it to manipulate record sales. For instance, you'll see an advert for an album on TV, hear a single on radio, etc. With the final pitch levels set to this middle C=528hz so, you love the sound, rush out and buy it! The thing is, the versions we are paying for has the drop from Solfeggio to Concert Pitch performed, thus, you bore of that music much more quickly, as it's just not that 'in tune' with your body as when you heard the ads/radio edits, and rush out to buy more music that they are advertising with the keys in the Solfeggio scheme. What's anyone's opinions on this? Real? Bullshit?
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: TheBadger on November 26, 2013, 10:06:44 pm
QuoteWhat's anyone's opinions on this? Real? Bullshit?

Real.

There is nothing left to discover. So people just deepen their understanding of whats already known. I won't say that this theory you shared could be universal though. People are different, or rather there is a certain (unknown) number of groups a person can fit into in any context.

So I would say that, that theory was figured out, and works for a percentage of people, and that it is probably somehow verifiable.

I don't know the theory, But if this note/sound could be represented by a color, what color would it be? Say this color were to be yellow, then what is the sound/note for blue? And would people respond the same way to each? Some must prefer blue to yellow is what I mean.

The 'trigger' must be different for certain people.

I would also be curious about the effect when looked at from the perspective of class of music. That is, among those who are effected positively by the stimuli, are they effected the same way when its used in Rock, Rap, Metal, classic, classical and so on?

And then there is the question of other human conditions in the subject/person... Are they impulse buyers, are they impulsive in general? What is the intelligence level of the subject? And what is the depth of his/her pallet/experience? Does this person prefer britney spears, or Mozart?

If there are two people, one preferring pop, and one preferring classical like Bach, can they be effected the same way.

This theory gets very complicated when you start asking about ways to prove it. But with nearly every major university in the world having a music thoery department, I bet there are answers. And with the music industries billions, Im sure they know the answers.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: PabloMack on November 26, 2013, 11:59:26 pm
I had to do some research about Solfège Pitch before I knew what it was. This is something I didn't know. Sounds like it is no different from Concert Pitch except for 1) the specific frequencies used and 2) naming convention for the notes in the scale (A, B, C... vs. do re mi...) besides some unspecified "teaching methods" alluded to in Wikipedia. The two systems use the same method for recognizing only seven basic notes per octave (plus five odd-balls) instead of twelve that are of equal significance.

From a biological standpoint, it is very interesting how we sense these discrete notes on what is closer to a continuous sensory system. The vertebrate cochlea (the snail-shaped chamber in the inner ear) has a series of sensors known as techtorial plates and sensory filaments. The cochlea is like a miniature pipe organ except that the series of graduated pipes is instead a series of sensors. And these sensors are much closer together in their frequency increments than notes on a keyboard. So, at least theoretically, you are mostly using discrete regions of sensors that resonate infinitesimally close to the notes used in our standard scales. The in-between ones are somewhat neglected. There are a few exceptional instruments such as trombones that can play a continuous slide across a range of notes. Combining this knowledge with the biological and physical phenomenon of fatigue, I wonder if these certain sensors that are heavily used to sense the discrete notes in a scale experience any fatigue when the others are, in a sense, under used. My hypothesis is that anyone used to the Concert Pitch scale would experience a sense of pleasure or relief in switching to Solfège Pitch tunings because he then begins to use sensors that have been idle. It would be much like shifting a heavy suit case someone was carrying from one arm to the other when the first one was tired. The techtorial plates that vibrate to their resonant pitches do get damaged and even break off when stressed too much. This is often the cause of hearing loss. So with this hypothesis, switching from Solfège Pitch to Concert Pitch when the person is experiencing the fatigue of listening to the former might experience the same kind of relief or pleasure as someone switching the other way around.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 27, 2013, 03:14:07 am
These are all very good points. Yes, each person is of course different and perceive different forms of pleasure and anguish through very different medium. Also, the older we get, the lower the frequencies we are able to perceive become, as a youngster I remember being crazy by certain sounds, one, my Grandpa's hearing aid, feedbacking consistently high tones when at the wrong setting, tones that he clearly couldn't hear but drove me bloody mad. Other things like acoustical garden 'cat scarers', too. The horrible tones would get me right in the teeth, while the adults around heard none of it, I can't say I've noticed one of those for years, though I'm sure there are still people who keep birds or other animals using these and they must still exist.
The Solfeggio scale is based on the do-re-mi... convention, yes. I came across a Youtube video where, apparently, this guitar player has worked out the base note Solfege frequencies used in ancient times and transferred these to a guitar, the results are, to me at least, very counter intuitive to use for any kind of serious songwriting, I'll take his word that the keys are correct but to try to play in a very strange tuning scheme like that made me feel awkward and amateurish, have a look for it, it's one of the only Solfege related tagged videos on YT. Other guitar tuning methods, Full-Fourths as a quick example, are very intuitive to me and just 'work'. I suppose each person is different, indeed.
The thing I read about the 528hz middle C was trying to be more specific than I maybe put across earlier, that the frequency range inherent in the commonly accepted Concert Pitch is actually more than just less 'nice sounding' but actually detremental to the human body and mind.
You also have many other base note conventions, the next one I intend to look into I happened upon when gathering info' on the Solfeggio, is the Pythagorean, it keeps the same tuning convention of half/full-step but your root A, instead of vibrating at 440hz, is dropped to 432hz. A future study...
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 27, 2013, 04:00:04 am
Michael, I have always wanted to be a full synesthesiac, I find that amazing and it is what you're reffering to, what colour is A, what smell is yellow(ewww!). I think to some extent, everyone is, the olfactory sense being the one most widely recognizable as such, a smell can instantly transport you back decades in your mind to a memory you had no inclination that you even remembered, and would that memory actually exist in the mind at all to be recalled, if I 'hadn't walked past that freshly clipped garden hedge', whose aroma happened to invoke a sleeping memory deep within?
Many great artists, composers and creative people are known to have synesthesia, which just seems entirely normal to them until they realise that not everyone sees Tuesday as blue, or hears the taste of apples as they listen to a favourite piece of melody, like they do and have always taken for granted. It's very interesting and intriguing.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: inkydigit on November 27, 2013, 08:52:44 am
really interesting stuff here... more resaerch is needed on my part
@ Martin; as for synaethesia, check http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24990432
or LSD!
:o
J
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 27, 2013, 01:24:49 pm
"Putrid meat at Kilburn." Nice!
Cheers, Jason.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: TheBadger on November 27, 2013, 02:00:23 pm
Quote...not everyone sees Tuesday as blue, or hears the taste of apples as they listen to a favourite piece of melody...


I just think that is an awesome sentence!

This of course brings it to the old story plot of creativity coming from the same place as mental illness though. You can easily imagine a mind with schizophrenia describing things likewise. Inky's link indeed. But a mind with imagination is needed in any case.
Creativity should never be confused with technical mastery though. Like muscle memory, technical skill/knowledge is offten confused for genius while hiding incompetence; Popular music and government bureaucracy are pretty good examples.

But Oh man! this is what I meant when I said there is nothing left to discover. And there need not be. You could spend a lifetime on any one subject once you start thinking beyond the simple doing of a thing. And the implications of that are profound too. For example, who is more important, the architect or the ditch digger? And who should be paid more? Or to be a little more on topic, the Composer or the violinist? Dose music have hierarchy because men do?

And if you are an Anarchist, does that mean that Bach is perverse? Can an Atheist really enjoy Mozart? I'll say that I do agree with Plato when he said that music is the highest form of art (and that actors are the lowest form of artist). There is nothing else that can do what music does.

Sorry if im taking you off topic but I do hope that you guys have some fun with this thread collaboration. Who knows what could come of it? Just hearing the right note could really set one of you guys off!

And again, sorry for the off topic, but I would be very curious what each of you would say is the sadist song you ever heard? Its fine if you want to qualify the answer by genre/class.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 29, 2013, 11:26:06 am
Jochen. I've been messing around with this, the import MIDI file option was giving me a real headache but I think I have it sorted now, there are only 3 channels in use in your file, 1, 2 and 10, right? These use inbuilt instruments from the soundcard? I can select them all in my MIDI LSD importer but I don't see where those instruments have come from, or how to locate new instances of, for instance, 'drumkit-room'. I can clone your channel and start new patterns with the same instruments but, where are these instruments/sound samples to begin with?
Btw, everything imported fine with the correct note/sample assigned in FL at default.

I never used .mid before so I'm just a bit confused over where these MIDI instruments are on my pc because they're all there in the file when it's imported. And, up to 16 separate channels can be saved within .mid, what if, in an edit I've saved new channels to pass on that uses instruments that the next person doesn't have? I know they only save pattern and automation data but listening to your .mid in a media player sounds almost identical to when it's imported into my studio and I can access the instruments, haha, confused! Where are these instruments?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 29, 2013, 12:30:59 pm
First things first: yes you are right there are only 3 channels used in my file.
Ch1-should be bass,Ch2-keyboard (clavinett),Ch10 drums (CH10 is midi standard for
drumkits,but you can have drums/percussion on any channel,if you want)
As far as I know windows uses Roland sounds to produce the sounds you hear
when,for example,deleting a file or anything else that has a sound by default.
So it must be a part of the OS.
I don't know what an LSD importer is,sorry.
FLS uses some built in MIDI sounds that can be found somewhere,too.
There is a FLS midi tutorial somewhere,maybe that can be of some help here.
http://www.musictech.net/2013/08/fl-studio-tutorial-midi-1/
Midi is a standard convention to make music interchangeable and sound the same
on another instrument than the one it was originally done with.
If you want to change an instrument you have to find the graphic display of the track
and change it there.For example on my sequencer I have to select the track and then
go to edit mode,then the track is displayed as notes with the position in time like
C1 - 0-000  length  strength. When you have found that display mode in FLS
you will see the first value displayed is the sound bank and instrument.You can
change it there or you could delete it and set a midi sound in the appropriate
section of FLS.Probably called voice or so.
Furthermore FLS should have listings of the voice banks and note assignments
somewhere,I'm shure.My sequencer has a small booklet with all that stuff.

Should take a while to get familiar with the midi concept.But once you got it
it's pretty easy.

If you add tracks/channels in midi mode and assign the used voice the next
person will have it,too,as long as midi is used.Later on when mixing and
hopefully converting to vst sounds,which should be one of the last steps
taken,the next person can only add via multitrack recording.
The question is can FLS convert the midi sounds to vst? I don't know anything
about that unfortunately.
All that stuff can be really confusing,I've been there and still am. ;)

Hope that helps a little,J.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 29, 2013, 01:12:53 pm
Cheers, that clears up a lot, was pretty confused there.

I must say, that's probably one of the cheesiest tunes I've ever heard, lovd it! :D MIDI instruments sound awful!

Again, I have attachement issues here too so, here's an external link to a quick edit at one of the only places I can find to share files that works for me. I just doubled the length and gave it an offbeat, upped tempo in the second half, so far. Later I'll be able to do more, this was just a little practice as I'm not used to this MIDI thing yet.

Smell the cheese!

*** NEW LINK BELOW ***
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 29, 2013, 01:29:30 pm
Left clicking that link gives a server not found message,
right clicking gives an unknown error occured message.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 29, 2013, 02:17:17 pm
My fault. There's an extra dot there, should be www64. Not www.64.
I'll fix it now.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on November 29, 2013, 02:34:28 pm
http://www57.zippyshare.com/v/76780061/file.html
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on November 30, 2013, 09:47:35 am
Ok that worked!
Got the file and listened to it.We can do it that way it seems. 8)

Have you found a way to convert the voices to vsti with FLS?
Because then we could work out a basic song structure with midi,change the voices
to higher quality vsti and maybe then add real instrument tracks,like solo parts
or so.
What do you say?
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 01, 2013, 09:33:36 am
Really easy to convert the voices to any other instrument. The MIDI file loads all the note(and any automation data, I think) patterns directly into the step-sequencer channel container(called a Wrapper in FL), the sequencer is directly linked to the 'piano-roll', which is just the extended complex pattern writing version of the step-sequencer, all the patterns in your MIDI file show in the piano-roll, so your drum, bass and clav all have their own piano-rolls. In the sequencer I can simply context-click the channel Wrapper and select 'replace'. That keeps all pattern data and swaps the instrument wrapper to any given voice or plugin at all. The new instrument just takes over playing the pattern.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 01, 2013, 09:57:59 am
But...
Exporting .mid with replaced vsti instruments strips the pattern completely from the .mid. Just tried it. Looks like they must be shared with MIDI instruments and then rendered to sound file to continue. That creates a problem of only the person swapping instruments being able to hear it before it's rendered to a wave. I'll keep experimenting, this was just a quick test to see if vsti voices would save...
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on December 01, 2013, 10:31:39 am
Sounds promising!
I didn't expect to have the vsti voices exported via midi,so having it as a wave file
in the end would be ok for me.
A sound example could be shared and the other(s)could write some tips or remarks
and the swapping guy,the mixing sound engineer so to say,should be able to
integrate suggestions and then share a new sound example.No big deal I'd say.
Do we want to make that reggae a bit more elaborate?
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 01, 2013, 11:25:23 am
Good good. Elaborate? The parts already there sound to me like a nice bridge/chorus structure. A verse type section for 8 maybe next linking back to the uptempo chorusy section after, really anything goes though, I've already been playing live along to the loop, it's very easy tune to play along with. Maybe, if you haven't already, you could replace, or double up the bassline with a real recorded bass, it really needs something not digital to take that generic, Super Mario(how my youngest daughter described it) sound away. I have a bass and a guitar here, too. I might learn the line and mess about with some live recording tomorrow when the kids go to school. We wouldn't have to remove any tracks, just beef them up a bit with natural instruments. But whatever.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on December 01, 2013, 12:04:07 pm
I haven't recorded a real bass yet,just used it to practice basslines
some years ago.And to get it looped it seems more pratical if you could
record a real bass.Ain't there any cool sounding vsti basses?
There are ways to make it sound more natural by combining voices also.
And at a later stage adding some reverb and delay makes a difference,too.
I'll test some structural ideas on my end,maybe an intro part and some
rhythmic variation,a little melody perhaps,don't know,let's see. ;)
Whatsoever,I'll try to keep it simple and easy to integrate.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 01, 2013, 02:57:23 pm
I'd be happy to do some bass and guitar lines, already have some that will complement the shonky midi parts. There's a half decent vsti that I have called Boobass, I've used it a lot and constantly get told by my bassist friend not to! :D
To be honest, I agree, I'd much rather have a real bass, which is why I have his here, to redo all my existing Boobass parts properly, it really makes a difference, might as well put it to use here. I'll get on to that tomorrow.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 01, 2013, 03:01:09 pm
Bit of fun. ;)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 01, 2013, 03:07:39 pm
Since it would be quite wrong for me to play with my Action Man, He-Man or Barbie figures at my age, I've taken to dressing up my instruments. There's nothing strange about that!
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on December 02, 2013, 09:48:28 am
 :D I hope you undress  them before playing,at least the strings.

Maybe you should wait a few days with recording a bassline in case we have some
changes in the structure.
If you don't mind I would like to re-do the additions you did to the drums or put them
somewhere else.Or better some congas or bongos for that?
What you have the organ playing is something I would have a rhythm guitar playing rather.
If we have the organ and the clavinett and a rhythm guitar it might get to cluttered.
To support such rhythmic stuff some percussion instruments could come in handy.
Would that be ok to you?
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 02, 2013, 11:59:11 am
No probs, I'll just wait and see what you come up with in the meantime, having trouble with soundcard and Wavepad recording when I tried earlier, I think it's just program related because Windows sound recorder is working perfectly, I'd really rather not have to use that, I'm putting in a new usb soundcard instead of the onboard mic-in that I tried earlier, I know the card works fine with Wavepad as it was in my last computer with no issues.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 02, 2013, 12:38:38 pm
Fixed.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on December 02, 2013, 12:57:20 pm
 8)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on December 10, 2013, 11:07:41 am
Took a bit longer,sorry.
Here it comes, a little bit more elaborate,Reggae 2nd edition.

Bar 1 - count in,please leave that until the final edit,might be of use to sync single tracks
          added in a non midi way.
Bar 2 - anacrusis (do you know another word for that?)
Bar 3-6 - intro
Bar 7-14 - chorus pt A     -
Bar 15-22 - chorus pt B   -  These four  are meant to be the normal chorus
Bar 23-30 - chorus pt A   -
Bar 31-38 - chorus pt C   -
----------------------------------
Bar 39-46 - chorus pt A   -
Bar 47-54 - chorus pt B   -  These four are meant to be the chorus with ending
Bar 55-62 - chorus pt A   -
Bar 63-71 - chorus pt D   -(coda)

Of course you can add more normal choruses by copying Bar 7-38 or for a solo part
maybe some choruses consisting of pt A and B only and just the last one with part
C again for example.

Add tracks to your liking,but please leave my tracks as they are,that way I can practise
some soloing and stuff.
Adding a rhythm guitar would be nice.
If you feel the urge to change something (structure or notes or so),please contact me.

One more thing: I noticed that you (Martin) used mathematical correct timing.
That is not the best way to simulate playing.If you look at my tracks you'll see
some aberrations and those are deliberate.Most of the time musicians tend to
play incorrect -mathematically- you can see that by looking at midi files that
were recorded and not programmed.Think of playing in a laid back way,which is
simply not possible with mathematically correct timing,for example.

Btw if you play the file with the mediaplayer you'll notice that the drums are
not right,this is because they are not on track 10 this time.
Should make no difference in FLS or another sequencer,though.

Some additional drum voices in use now:
E2 - chinese cymbal
A2 - crash cymbal 2
F1 - room tom 1
G1 - room tom 2
B1 - room tom 4
C2 - room tom 5
D2 - room tom 6

What about percussion?

Hope I haven't forgot something.Phew,such a long post. ;)

Have fun,J. :)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 10, 2013, 12:47:50 pm
Well, you've added plenty, and have plenty of rules, Jochen! I was really just into messing around with some sounds, like a game of musical Chinese whispers, know? You're taking it very seriously, relax brother! :D I'm kind of scared to touch it now.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on December 10, 2013, 12:55:08 pm
I am relaxed.
If you want to make it freejazz,go ahead. ;)
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on December 11, 2013, 09:47:52 am
And of course I apologize that I didn't say that the above (the long post)
was meant to be suggestions rather than rules.Should have made that
clearer in the first place,sorry.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: bobbystahr on December 11, 2013, 11:55:35 am
Quote from: dandelO on October 24, 2013, 06:29:25 pm
Cheers, Jason, Bill. :)
Jason, Ade said he'd sent you some tracks before but nothing really came of it, we've just been working remotely, maybe a pile of us musos could get together for some collab? I know we've got pretty different tastes and styles of music but I know I listen to, and like to make anything, that could make for some cool messed up tracks. The original 'Pastlives' was pretty different to what you hear there, after I got my hands on it. Imagine a gang of us throwing some tracks around, could be fun.
Anyone else, too. I know a few of you here are musicians, Efflux, Matt, Rids, Danny G(you do a bit of mixing, don't you?). Anyone up for some messing around, just for fun?


Well I'd be up for a project like this...didn't know of this thread till now but it could be fun. I've discovered after being given a pre intel imac that if you use melody or harmony assistant from myriad-online.com that you can export as midi and import into GarageBand and add live instruments if you are writing using software only for original compositions. Working on one in my spare time now but am assembling tunes for my 2nd cd so haven't had non live playing time lately.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: bobbystahr on December 11, 2013, 12:07:49 pm
Quote from: j meyer on December 01, 2013, 12:04:07 pm
I haven't recorded a real bass yet,just used it to practice basslines
some years ago.And to get it looped it seems more pratical if you could
record a real bass.Ain't there any cool sounding vsti basses?
There are ways to make it sound more natural by combining voices also.
And at a later stage adding some reverb and delay makes a difference,too.
I'll test some structural ideas on my end,maybe an intro part and some
rhythmic variation,a little melody perhaps,don't know,let's see. ;)
Whatsoever,I'll try to keep it simple and easy to integrate.



In HarmonyAssistant using the Gold sound base there are some awesome digi bass sounds, a lot sampled from actual basses....I have this if someone needs a bass sound converted...I think Ade has this as well.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: dandelO on December 11, 2013, 09:53:26 pm
Well, I'm up for anything really, think I'd rather do a live organic bass than use samples. The kit's all there, might as well put it to use.
I know about the quantized snap to grid that I used there, Jochen, and not to do that, indeed. I was just playing around trying to quickly work out the MIDI thing.
Think I'll open up FL tomorrow and play around, it's a bit late to start tonight.
Bobby, all fine by me, a big free for all might indeed result in the earlier predicted train wreck, I just thought it would be a laugh for anyone and everyone to join in and maybe we'd end up with something fun along the way.

"You never get anything done by planning." - Karl Pilkington.
Title: Re: Pastlives Revisited
Post by: j meyer on January 11, 2014, 09:31:27 am
Do we still have that reggae project going?