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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: WAS on December 14, 2014, 01:37:11 PM

Title: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: WAS on December 14, 2014, 01:37:11 PM
Does anyone know how I might easily transform images of terrain into height maps? For example, Cassini has just given us the opportunity to rebuild worlds we lacked data from before.

http://www.space.com/27975-best-saturn-moon-cassini-maps-revealed.html?adbid=10152500245311466&adbpl=fb&adbpr=17610706465&cmpid=514630_20141212_37187547

Iapetus
(http://www.lpi.usra.edu/icy_moons/images/ismap-cyl-KH.jpg) (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/icy_moons/images/ismap-cyl-KH.jpg)

Tethys
(http://i.space.com/images/i/000/044/239/i02/enceladus-map-cassini.jpg?1418236551) (http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA18435.jpg)
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: Dune on December 15, 2014, 03:22:33 AM
Color information might be totally different from heights, so I hardly think it's possible in a real way.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: TheBadger on December 15, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Well Ulco is right that it wont be a real hight map. But you can still get something from it.

There are two things you can do that I know of. One is to use it on a moon (but you can get real hight maps for any planet in our solar system). And the other way is you project the map with an image map shader on to a terrain.

First covert the image to black and white in photo shop. Then in TG go--> shaders --> create new shader--> color shader--> Image map shader--> and load your image when prompted.
Then copy a location into the tab and adjust the amount of displacement.

This will give you something to play with. Sometimes it is cool, sometimes it will look like crap. But it will never be an exact or correct representation of what the map is, because as said, it is not a real hight map. This can be a good way to get some terrain though if you don't have an idea where to start.

For a real height map of a planet in our solar system, go to: http://www.celestiamotherlode.net

Now the image you posted above can be used as is on a moon. Search how to map a moon object and project the image. It should not need to be displaced from such a great distance to get some effect. Though a real map would still be better. You could also use these maps in the OP, on top of, a real height map for color on a moon or anything else.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: WAS on December 15, 2014, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: TheBadger on December 15, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
Well Ulco is right that it wont be a real hight map. But you can still get something from it.

There are two things you can do that I know of. One is to use it on a moon (but you can get real hight maps for any planet in our solar system). And the other way is you project the map with an image map shader on to a terrain.

First covert the image to black and white in photo shop. Then in TG go--> shaders --> create new shader--> color shader--> Image map shader--> and load your image when prompted.
Then copy a location into the tab and adjust the amount of displacement.

This will give you something to play with. Sometimes it is cool, sometimes it will look like crap. But it will never be an exact or correct representation of what the map is, because as said, it is not a real hight map. This can be a good way to get some terrain though if you don't have an idea where to start.

For a real height map of a planet in our solar system, go to: http://www.celestiamotherlode.net

Now the image you posted above can be used as is on a moon. Search how to map a moon object and project the image. It should not need to be displaced from such a great distance to get some effect. Though a real map would still be better. You could also use these maps in the OP, on top of, a real height map for color on a moon or anything else.

Like any bump map, you can definitely make a height map out of it. Accuracy on a mars DEM is only 0.4 of a scale of 1, so getting accurate is not even possible yet to begin with.

The images are based on spectral analysis of the height to begin with too, which is why shadows are not present but within slopes of a 360 angle from the center of the map out.

I can easily make it a heightmap in photoshop or UDK, but I want to try and get some data in with it through a generator for little more accuracy by playing around with setting. It only needs to be seen from afar so any inconsistencies will likely not be seen.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: TheBadger on December 15, 2014, 01:17:02 PM
Then what are you asking about? Bump maps still need to be grey scale in TG.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: Kadri on December 15, 2014, 01:28:10 PM

There are shadows in the maps,aren't there? Not sure what you mean.
If they are not directly highmaps or normalmaps it is hard to do like Michael and Ulco said.
And they don't look like any of the above to me?

http://www.uahirise.org//dtm/about.php

http://www.uahirise.org//dtm/

Edit: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4403
        They are only color maps as it looks.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: WAS on December 15, 2014, 02:29:38 PM
Quote from: Kadri on December 15, 2014, 01:28:10 PM

There are shadows in the maps,aren't there? Not sure what you mean.
If they are not directly highmaps or normalmaps it is hard to do like Michael said.
And they don't look like any of the above to me?

http://www.uahirise.org//dtm/about.php

http://www.uahirise.org//dtm/

Edit: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4403
        They are only color maps as it looks.

That's all that's been released, yes. We don't take photographs of surfaces, due to atmosphere. That is a stiched, 3D render of the terrain through DTM/DEM/Spectral Analyses of the surface via radar. We just have to wait for the height maps to be release. Which is never immediately because science magazines and documentary editors get these assets before the public for new articles/shows/presentations, etc.

But if you notice the shadows are omnidirectional, not one light source, because it is based on a height-map with no light source besides ambient light. That cuts down on oddities. Example, moons and such in games are height maps based on the initial texture image. Looks fine from a distance. Destiny shows us that.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: TheBadger on December 15, 2014, 02:42:19 PM
Quote from: Kadri on December 15, 2014, 01:28:10 PM

There are shadows in the maps,aren't there? Not sure what you mean.
If they are not directly highmaps or normalmaps it is hard to do like Michael said.
And they don't look like any of the above to me?

http://www.uahirise.org//dtm/about.php

http://www.uahirise.org//dtm/

Edit: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4403
        They are only color maps as it looks.

Did not see these before Kadri. Pretty cool. I took notice of the dunes.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: Kadri on December 15, 2014, 02:48:22 PM
Quote from: WASasquatch on December 15, 2014, 02:29:38 PM
...
But if you notice the shadows are omnidirectional, not one light source, because it is based on a height-map with no light source besides ambient light. That cuts down on oddities. Example, moons and such in games are height maps based on the initial texture image. Looks fine from a distance. Destiny shows us that.

They look like classic photos taken from different angles and times with different shadows to me (only some with different color info).
I might be wrong but i doubt it. An image taken with a hightmap and only ambient light would look very different.
Using images like those is standard since ages and from a distance nearly everything looks good.

Other then that you can use them as they are or try to change them so much you can.
Anyway. I am not sure what your question is. If they will put the hightmaps the only thing is to wait ?
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: Kadri on December 15, 2014, 02:49:18 PM

Yeah there are great images Michael. Some (most) are very big and detailed.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: WAS on December 15, 2014, 02:54:13 PM
My question is simply is there a (free) terrain program you can plug a image into and fractalize for some detail and export as a height map. These will be very distant like i was saying so any inconsistencies will be masked.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: Kadri on December 15, 2014, 03:02:14 PM

Terragen does what you say.
There are different ways you can do it.

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7223.0

There are  other threads too.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: WAS on December 15, 2014, 03:13:39 PM
Huh, interesting. So that one is just like turning Terragen into a Heightmap generator based on camera position and the distance shader? I'll have to give that a try.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: Kadri on December 15, 2014, 03:22:23 PM

It is not only that.There is more info below in the thread.
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: Dune on December 16, 2014, 02:51:54 AM
There's Pixplant: http://www.pixplant.com/ (http://www.pixplant.com/)
Title: Re: Iaptetus and Tethys Mapped - Easiest way to Create Height Maps?
Post by: WAS on December 16, 2014, 02:40:30 PM
Quote from: Dune on December 16, 2014, 02:51:54 AM
There's Pixplant: http://www.pixplant.com/ (http://www.pixplant.com/)


Never heard of this one. I use CrazyBump for games.