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Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: yossam on July 18, 2016, 02:29:36 pm

Title: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 18, 2016, 02:29:36 pm
About 75% done on a render in its 16th hour and I'm getting bucket artifacts............anyone else experienced this? Pic is 3600X2400, quality is .5, AA 8. I can't post the file............it's one of Lucs'.  :-\
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Stormlord on July 18, 2016, 03:43:55 pm
Once I had the same Problem with 3dsMax while rendering a very big picture for a print.
The Problem is insufficient memory. To save a picture in his memory internaly (while he renders it), the computer need the memory for the whole rendering in one single block.
If the memory which is available in your computer is fragmented (not as a single blockavailable) it runs into problems, it has no idea where to put his rendered data in his memory and therefore it leaves the pixels simply black. That's why  and this should help to understand where the cause of your problem is... I hope, I could help you to understand your problem :-)

The Problem - > The Dimensions are to great for your memory inside your PC or another program uses memory or another program is running which uses also memory, ect...
The Solution -> Crop the picture and split it into 2 or more areas (depending on your size) and merge it in your postwork with Poposhop...

my best

STORMLORD
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 18, 2016, 04:26:59 pm
I doubt very seriously it is a memory problem..........the computer has 64 GB. Usage was around 25 GB according to the chart. It looks like the GI problem that pops up occasionally, but it is at default for the render pass.  ;) 
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Oshyan on July 18, 2016, 04:31:32 pm
Can you post a screenshot of the render-in-progress, for a start? Render bucket errors can occur for various reasons and we may be able to tell just by looking at it what the culprit might be.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 18, 2016, 04:40:30 pm
Here you go Oshyan, right below the plane nose. It goes all the way across the pic.
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Oshyan on July 18, 2016, 04:46:38 pm
Wow, gorgeous clouds. Did you enable the cloud Acceleration Cache at all? It usually defaults to off (None) with the new v3 clouds and it can cause these kinds of errors.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 18, 2016, 04:52:04 pm
No I did not.............didn't know I needed to.  :-\


I agree about the clouds.........they are Lucs'.  :)
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 18, 2016, 05:00:54 pm
You are talking about under the Optimisation tab.............I have never changed that, ever. What setting do you recommend?  :o
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: ajcgi on July 19, 2016, 05:55:49 am
I've only played with that setting in the past fortnight, trying to bash previs out faster. Optimal seems... optimal.  :o
Though I did get a similar thing with acceleration cache set to anything less than none.
Another thing that falls foul of it can be the reflection shader. Naturally that isn't on your clouds, but as a similar fix, perhaps try expanding the raytrace padding.

[Edit] another thing I found fixed it on reflections was to lower the samples all the way to 1 bizarrely enough.
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Oshyan on July 19, 2016, 04:57:14 pm
I think you may have misunderstood. I was saying that you should *not* have changed that setting, that it should remain set to "None (Highest Detail)". If that's still where it's at for all of your cloud layers then the culprit must be something else. I'll see if I can think of other possibilities, but seeing your TGD would help.

Alex, the reflection shader doesn't handle softness that well across bucket boundaries. So if you have any softness, it requires very high numbers of samples to resolve well. The softness values are also extremely sensitive, you want to use very low point values in general.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 19, 2016, 06:25:33 pm
Quote from: Oshyan on July 18, 2016, 04:46:38 pm
Wow, gorgeous clouds. Did you enable the cloud Acceleration Cache at all? It usually defaults to off (None) with the new v3 clouds and it can cause these kinds of errors.

- Oshyan



The way I took this was the way you said it..............anyway, I think maybe I know what may have caused it. I just don't know why. I put the render on pause for about 2 hours at that point. I started it back before I went to bed and found the artifacts the next morning. I almost looks like the GI changed for some reason. There is a difference in the lighting that you can see in the pic.


I have another render going with conservative acceleration, and there are no artifacts. I haven't paused that render either and I'm not going to.
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Oshyan on July 19, 2016, 08:16:02 pm
Hmm, so... I'm still not clear on what your Acceleration Cache setting was in the original render. :D I would recommend setting it to *None*, for now. Conservative may improve things if it was set to "Optimal", but for v3 (new in Terragen 4) clouds it's best to use None for now.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 19, 2016, 08:33:31 pm
It was on none. As I said before, I have never changed that. It has always been on none, even before the beta.  ;D
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Oshyan on July 19, 2016, 09:15:11 pm
So then you *increased* it? Hmm. Well, ok. I guess the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.

I can't really think of why pausing the render would cause the issue, unless the new v3 cloud GI system doesn't keep its state during pausing. It should, of course. I'll check with Matt and see if he has any ideas.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Dune on July 20, 2016, 02:02:45 am
This has not very much to do with your case, Richard, but pausing and doing something else may cause trouble. I had a render paused yesterday, opened Photoshop to do something, closed it again and wanted to resume rendering. But TG had crashed in that moment. Probably memory related, I guess.
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Matt on July 20, 2016, 04:19:30 am
I think there may be a bug that occurs when pausing renders, which allows it start caching GI based on what's in the preview, not the full render. So when you unpause it continues with modified GI. Obviously this is bad, and I need to fix this. However, I believe it only occurs if your preview is in non-RTP mode, because non-RTP mode can resume rendering while the main rendering is paused, whereas RTP mode doesn't do this yet.

Matt
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: ajcgi on July 20, 2016, 06:32:59 am
Quote from: Oshyan on July 19, 2016, 04:57:14 pm
Alex, the reflection shader doesn't handle softness that well across bucket boundaries. So if you have any softness, it requires very high numbers of samples to resolve well. The softness values are also extremely sensitive, you want to use very low point values in general.

- Oshyan


Cheers. Suspected as much.
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: yossam on July 20, 2016, 10:40:30 am
Thanks for the info Matt. The preview was in non RTP mode, so for now leave it in RTP mode or don't pause your render. Correct?  :-\


FYI............the render with conservative acceleration finished without a problem.
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Matt on July 20, 2016, 01:26:49 pm
Quote from: yossam on July 20, 2016, 10:40:30 am
The preview was in non RTP mode, so for now leave it in RTP mode or don't pause your render. Correct?  :-\


Yup, or close the preview before pausing.
Title: Re: Beta 4-Render bucket artifacts
Post by: Dune on July 21, 2016, 02:02:36 am
Thanks Matt. That's an important thing to know, especially in big renders.