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Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: gasbutan on January 26, 2020, 02:57:47 pm

Title: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 26, 2020, 02:57:47 pm
Hi everybody,

I have a problem with multiple objects having a glass shader.
In the example below I made a scene with 3 glass plates placed one behind the other.
The first render is done with standard renderer, the second with ray tracer.
In both cases ray detail multiplier is set to 1.0
For the ray tracer I used max paths per sample of 100.
The results are not really satisfactory.
Any ideas how to improve it ?


thx

test031_standard.jpg      test031_raytraced.jpg
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Hannes on January 26, 2020, 03:16:58 pm
Set Render/Advanced/Subdiv Settings/Ray detail multiplier to 1 and
Render/Advanced/Max Ray depth in PT to higher than 5, until the glass isn't black anymore. Maybe this doesn't work in the raytracer, but it should in the path tracer.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 26, 2020, 05:33:08 pm
Thx Hannes. 
I have to correct myself: the second is made using the path tracer. Max ray depth is already at 100.
Doesn't work  :(
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Oshyan on January 26, 2020, 08:16:54 pm
Is it "Max Ray Depth in PT" (on Advanced tab) that is 100, or *Max Paths Per Sample* (on Quality tab)?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 27, 2020, 04:40:15 am
Quote from: Oshyan on January 26, 2020, 08:16:54 pmIs it "Max Ray Depth in PT" (on Advanced tab) that is 100, or *Max Paths Per Sample* (on Quality tab)?

- Oshyan
hmmm - obviously i got that mixed up, thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 27, 2020, 03:32:11 pm
Much better, but still not perfect.
Max Ray Depth in PT is 13, it seems to be the maximum possible.

test031_pt.jpg
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Hannes on January 27, 2020, 05:55:17 pm
The black glass is gone, but did you set Render/Advanced/Subdiv Settings/Ray detail multiplier to 1? Otherwise the geometry behind the glass will be low res.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 28, 2020, 02:59:30 am
Quote from: Hannes on January 27, 2020, 05:55:17 pmThe black glass is gone, but did you set Render/Advanced/Subdiv Settings/Ray detail multiplier to 1? Otherwise the geometry behind the glass will be low res.
Yes, ray detail multiplier is 1.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 28, 2020, 03:48:54 am
The left side of the foreground element is not covering the second element and directly showing the terrain through this one single element.
If you observe the refraction the terrain detail is lower and that's why I agree with Hannes's question regarding the ray detail multiplier.
If the ray detail multiplier is really set at 1 then this a bug.

Can you doublecheck or post the tgd otherwise?
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: KlausK on January 28, 2020, 12:29:31 pm
Hi, Not trying too hijack this thread but I had a go at this kind of setup as well.
Comment away, especially if there is anything noteworthy about the setup.
I find the results rather...I don`t really know wht to think.

CHeers, Klaus
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 28, 2020, 01:02:58 pm
here is the tgd for my scene...

thx for the support

test031d.tgd
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Hannes on January 28, 2020, 01:09:02 pm
Confirmed. Gasbutan, your settings seem to be correct. I also tried Klaus' file, and even reduced the IOR to 1.1 for testing. With the path tracer the detail of the terrain behind the glass objects is completely lost.
And there are still black glass objects even with the maximum Max ray depth.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: KlausK on January 28, 2020, 01:13:40 pm
Thanks, Hannes. Perhaps Matt or Oshyan should have a look at this then.

CHeers, Klaus
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 28, 2020, 01:16:29 pm
Thank you Hannes and Klaus for your confirmation.
Obviously a bug ?
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: WAS on January 28, 2020, 05:27:09 pm
Do you have 360 optimal crop region set? I don't see it mentioned and I notice some background reflection which would be controlled here i think (in KlausK's version). Perhaps it also makes a difference at multiple depths of glass refraction.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: KlausK on January 28, 2020, 09:14:20 pm
Here are some more test renderings with different settings.
All path traced. Settings not mentioned have not changed.

CHeers, Klaus
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Dune on January 29, 2020, 03:37:07 am
Looks like a bug indeed.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 29, 2020, 04:14:49 am
Yup indeed, won't take long until Oshyan or Matt will join this discussion here.
This should also affect underwater surfaces I'd tend to say, but those work fine with RDM., thus perhaps it might be an over-agressive optimization of the path tracer.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: KyL on January 29, 2020, 04:13:33 pm
Interesting.

Did you guys try turning on "Ray Trace Everything", out of curiosity?
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on January 29, 2020, 04:25:57 pm
Quote from: KyL on January 29, 2020, 04:13:33 pmInteresting.

Did you guys try turning on "Ray Trace Everything", out of curiosity?
Yes, I did. No difference.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: KyL on January 29, 2020, 04:32:38 pm
Okay thanks!
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: KlausK on February 04, 2020, 07:27:47 am
Hi,

I just installed the latest Frontier4.4.48 and gave the 3 glassplates another try.
Here is the result. Weird. This can`t be right, not?
This is the identical file which gave the top left result in the previous composited picture.
I attached the scene file again if anybody wants to take a look, again.

CHeers, Klaus
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: WAS on February 04, 2020, 04:01:42 pm
Quote from: KlausK on February 04, 2020, 07:27:47 amHi,

I just installed the latest Frontier4.4.48 and gave the 3 glassplates another try.
Here is the result. Weird. This can`t be right, not?
This is the identical file which gave the top left result in the previous composited picture.
I attached the scene file again if anybody wants to take a look, again.

CHeers, Klaus

Huh. Wonder if this explains why my ocean is currently looking very speckled with black dots. Just installed latest frontier before working on the water. Refraction on even the top level don't look right.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: WAS on February 04, 2020, 04:18:37 pm
This doesn't look right, especially at MPD 0.6 and AA6, everything is fairly smooth minus caching, but that water is atrocious. Just basic water shader, decay distance at 75. Foam is white so it's only where it's at and shouldn't be effecting this.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Matt on February 04, 2020, 07:47:24 pm
@WAS, What does it look like in previous versions? Could it be the roughness?
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Matt on February 04, 2020, 07:48:50 pm
@KlausK, I'll work with your file to fix whatever's causing this. Thanks.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: WAS on February 04, 2020, 07:56:56 pm
Quote from: Matt on February 04, 2020, 07:47:24 pm@WAS, What does it look like in previous versions? Could it be the roughness?

That's a good point. I did up the roughness up to .05, though I swear I do this for ocean water all the time. Could be the sun angle on the reflections. I'm throwing it at my render node tonight which isn't upgraded so I'll know if there is any real difference.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Tangled-Universe on February 05, 2020, 05:24:02 am
I have had some of these issues as well, but could not reproduce it really.
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Matt on February 08, 2020, 10:30:16 pm
This is fixed in v4.4.49 (coming soon).
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: gasbutan on February 11, 2020, 04:16:19 am
Thank you, Matt !
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: Tangled-Universe on February 11, 2020, 06:02:57 am
Great Matt, you're on a roll :)
Title: Re: multiple glass shaders
Post by: KlausK on February 12, 2020, 04:34:20 pm
hi,
just installed the 4.4.49 update version today and rendered the scene with the three glassplates with it.
These are the results: SR = Standard Renderer / PT = Path Tracer

That looks a lot more like what I / we expected with this setup, I guess ;)

CHeers, Klaus

ps: while rendering with the path tracer about 90 minutes of the the total time needed - that is about half of the rendertime - Terragen could only use a few cores on my machine because there were only two or three buckets left to work on.