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Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: yaschan on July 24, 2020, 10:08:48 PM

Title: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on July 24, 2020, 10:08:48 PM
I am on Windows build 4.4.67 and getting this white line in HDRI when rendering with spherical camera and saving out as .exr. Never happened before.
What am I doing wrong?
(https://i.imgur.com/07TCCK2.jpg)
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on July 25, 2020, 03:18:40 PM
This happens with the water shader as well. I think it's as seam of the planet/plane?

If you try putting your camera offsetted from 0,0,0 does it go away looking at that area from another angle?
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on March 10, 2021, 10:06:52 AM
Yes my camera is offset from 0,0,0. This also happens with custom heightmaps loaded from other apps.
Indeed, the pixels that "bleed" in the gap are the color of the atmosphere, and it is worth noting that this does not appear in atmosphere.
Nothing a good clonebrush can't fix in Photoshop but this haven't happened in earlier versions. Using the latest one now.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on March 10, 2021, 10:50:49 PM
Rather than landscape having a gap the seam only appears on the area where the HDRI wraps around it seems. This is what I am getting. Again I am exporting in .EXR.

Can image reconstruction filter have impact on this? I am in the process of testing each of them.

(https://i.imgur.com/WwhhwdZ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9R7BhUd.png)
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on March 10, 2021, 10:57:41 PM
Changing to non-recommended Box the issue is less prominent but still there

(https://i.imgur.com/UFlvdYk.png)
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 11, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
Just a hunch, as I can't reproduce this effect to test, try playing with these three settings (independently).

I assume low light is exposing glowing haze from below the surface of the planet.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on March 12, 2021, 06:13:31 AM
I tried all of them. Unfortunately none of them really make a difference. Maybe I should send the project file? This seems to appear in most of my environments.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 12, 2021, 03:33:36 PM
Yeah you can send the project file to support [at] planetside.co.uk and Kevin or Matt will take a look at it. You can also simplify the scene and upload here and we can take a look at it, which may be faster (no offense PS).
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on March 16, 2021, 06:58:29 PM
This also happens with no terrain present in the scene.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 16, 2021, 08:04:35 PM
Have you made adjustments to the background sphere?
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kadri on March 16, 2021, 08:10:14 PM
Quote from: yaschan on March 16, 2021, 06:58:29 PMThis also happens with no terrain present in the scene.
Then if there is nothing in the scene just post the TGD file here to have a look at. Could be faster to get help.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 01:00:33 AM
I have had this happen before too, but don't remember the fix.

Try this though if you get a chance.  Increase Micropoly detail to .8 or even 1 and see if the seam goes away.

Also try increasing your GI settings to see if there is any effect.  Try 3, 3, 8 or 4, 4, 16 (Default is 2, 2, 8).

Also does the seam happen at all resolutions?  Try rendering 4000x2000 or 8000x4000 and see if the seam is there.

If you have a test scene share it here and I'll test it on my machine.

EDIT:  I did find this in the Docs:
"GI prepass padding: This specifes how much to enlarge the area of image calculated during the prepass, which may be useful to avoid mismatched lighting between adjacent cropped renders or pieces of a panorama when not using GI cache files (GI cache files effectively solve this problem). A value of 0 means no padding. A value of 1 adds a border to each side of the frustum which is equivalent to the width or height of the image or crop region, which makes the frustum 3 times as wide and 3 times as tall. Negative values shrink the area/frustum instead of enlarging it."

Anyways, I seem to remember it had something do do with some of these settings.

Derek
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on March 17, 2021, 03:11:36 AM
The error happens in every scene. No I have not made any changes to background sphere.

This is literally the startup scene with only settings changed being camera to spherical.

As you can see the vertical stripe appears in the HDRI if you render it and save as 32bit.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kadri on March 17, 2021, 04:23:48 AM

Hmm...looks like the same problem like here:
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,17327.0.html
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: yaschan on March 17, 2021, 08:01:48 AM
Yes, could be same. That post is from 2013. Will there be a fix for this in future?
With single images this isn't a show stopper, I could even make automatic photoshop tool to fix these.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
I'm guessing that 2013 render flaw was fixed and then came back recently.  I can confirm though this vertical line flaw occurs in both TG 4.5.56 and 4.4.67.  The only difference is in 4.4.67 the vertical line extends the entire height of the image (you can see it over the terrain and in the sky).  I'll do some further tests to see if it is something that can be resolved through render settings.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 11:25:31 AM
Did some testing and figured out some things that might help shed some light on the problem.  The "Ray trace everything (not recommended)" option fixed the vertical line problem.

Also the line extends up into the atmosphere if you use the Standard Renderer with Defer all shading off as well as Defer atmo/cloud off.  With the Path tracer the line is only in the terrain.

I also tried a bunch of GI settings and nothing made any difference.  Bucket size made no difference either.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 17, 2021, 01:00:07 PM
Maybe its scene padding. So some nothing is rendered outside the camera (even tho its 360) so when you actually use the hdri there is a tilting problem. Maybe try 360 detail optimum or above in camera detail. Default setting is Detail in Camera.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kadri on March 17, 2021, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 11:25:31 AMDid some testing and figured out some things that might help shed some light on the problem.  The "Ray trace everything (not recommended)" option fixed the vertical line problem.

Also the line extends up into the atmosphere if you use the Standard Renderer with Defer all shading off as well as Defer atmo/cloud off.  With the Path tracer the line is only in the terrain.

I also tried a bunch of GI settings and nothing made any difference.  Bucket size made no difference either.

I did some tests too. In one i used nearly everything i know that could have an effect on this and used very high settings.
The default scene took nearly 1 hour to render but the line was still there.
There could still be something i don't know and could help of course.
But this looks more like a flaw to me in Terragen how it renders the scene.
I don't remember if this was fixed sometime later and it just came up ones again.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 03:37:02 PM
But do you guys have any idea why "Ray trace everything (not recommended)" option fixes the vertical line problem.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 17, 2021, 03:48:02 PM
Probably cause terrain outside camera is ray traced and exists. Thats what I am trying to say, even though its 360 camera i think there is a padding issue. Like in that seam its forces to ray trace everything as a whole. 

I have a test but I cant view it. What do you all use? Online ones wont take even my 0.5 quality jpeg ...
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 17, 2021, 04:01:04 PM
Found one that'll take my resolutions. Not the fix i was hoping for. Off to subdivision settings. If ray trace everything is the only fix, I call bug.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: WAS on March 17, 2021, 03:48:02 PMI have a test but I cant view it. What do you all use? Online ones wont take even my 0.5 quality jpeg ...
What do we use to view a Spherical Panorama?
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kadri on March 17, 2021, 04:26:05 PM
Found this:

https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,17804.msg172479.html#msg172479

"I've fixed some rendering problems with spherical camera, particularly near the top and bottom of the image. Spherical renders now render faster too."

If this is the same problem looks like it came back some way later.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kadri on March 17, 2021, 04:36:42 PM

Quote from: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: WAS on March 17, 2021, 03:48:02 PMI have a test but I cant view it. What do you all use? Online ones wont take even my 0.5 quality jpeg ...
What do we use to view a Spherical Panorama?

I just used offset in Affinity. But for VR viewing i use this free one:
http://www.fsoft.it/FSPViewer/download/
But there are not many image format options in it. There are certainly better ones around.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 17, 2021, 04:43:44 PM
I don't think it's the same problem, as the poles seem to have a less exaggerated effect. It may be related.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kadri on March 17, 2021, 04:48:36 PM
Quote from: WAS on March 17, 2021, 04:43:44 PMI don't think it's the same problem, as the poles seem to have a less exaggerated effect. It may be related.

Maybe. In my tests it had the same problems on the upper and lower parts. It depends on your settings.
In some tests they were very distinct and sometimes not so much.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 17, 2021, 05:26:49 PM
Hmm. For me it seems to be less at the poles, down to a circular region at the pole. It is some sort of blending from either sides of the camera to create the spherical image. I wonder if you crop the image if that area effects the image quality if you stretch back to aspect ratio; if that region is just a dead region of padding
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kadri on March 17, 2021, 05:39:58 PM
Quote from: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 03:37:02 PMBut do you guys have any idea why "Ray trace everything (not recommended)" option fixes the vertical line problem.
I did some much higher resolution and what not tests to see if the low quality is kinda hiding the line but couldn't be sure.
The lighting-GI looked different so i tried without GI and standard rendering etc. but the problem was still there.

I just give up as this looks more a thing that is in Matt's hand.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 17, 2021, 05:53:15 PM
Same here.  Spent hours trying things.  I even went back and loaded up Skyboxes I made over a year ago and noticed the line was in them so this problem has been around awhile.  

I installed a handful of different versions of Terragen 4 back to 4.1.18 and the issue was in all of them.  So I guess this issue has always been there and I never noticed it.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 17, 2021, 06:12:59 PM
I don't know if you noticed, but the area also renders longer than the rest of the image too.

This current attempt is approaching near done but has buckets linger in the problem area.

Actually scratch that, not the problem area. Looked like it. Though interesting those specific areas are hanging.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 19, 2021, 12:34:43 PM
Has anyone submitted a support request (<support@planetside.co.uk>) on this issue to get it into the ticketing system?
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 19, 2021, 02:03:54 PM
I think we were assuming it may be something to remedy with settings. But it looks like only ray trace everything is the only fix, which isn't recommended to even use, so I call bug.
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: SuddenPlanet on March 20, 2021, 03:15:41 PM
OK, I will report it then.  Thanks!

Derek
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: Kevin Kipper on March 22, 2021, 09:44:07 PM
Hi Everyone,

We spoke to Matt about this issue and here's a summary of the discussion:

In the past these types of artifacts had multiple causes, and most of them have been fixed by now. There should no longer be horizontal line issues, and as far as we know the vertical lines only occur when using deferred shading.  "Ray Trace Everything" can fix the issue, but for good results you'll need to increase the Ray Detail Modifier to 1, and this results in a slow render. 

If you're using deferred shading, then we suspect the vertical lines may have something to do with adaptive sampling, therefore it might be fixable by using non-adaptive anti-aliasing (max samples).  It may also be fixable by ensuring the minimum number of samples per pixel is 1.  We have not tested this yet, so we're not sure.

Generally speaking, we recommend cropping the left and/or right edges in post.

Kevin
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 22, 2021, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Kevin Kipper on March 22, 2021, 09:44:07 PMGenerally speaking, we recommend cropping the left and/or right edges in post.
Yeah I mentioned that earlier and from my test didn't affect geometry continuation. Things lined up fine. I tried with Ray Detail Modifier at 1 with ray trace everything and the render times were pretty abysmal.

I will try those last possible fixes.

Update: Well I can tell just how max samples is starting it's going to be slow as well. I am assuming samples per pixel at 1 may be the same.

These seem pretty drastic fixes for a simple seam issue? It does seem like it is some sort of seem issue, as at the poles, there is also a circle artifact around the pole, which looks like some sort of warping/mapping issue (of the camera itself?)
Title: Re: vertical line in 360 HDRI
Post by: WAS on March 23, 2021, 12:27:54 AM
Max Samples didn't fix. Will try the other when I have more free time.