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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: Tangled-Universe on August 06, 2009, 05:02:15 pm

Title: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 06, 2009, 05:02:15 pm
Hi Guys,

Probably some of you also received some mailings last weeks about this year's E-on's Environment Competition for Vue.
Below are the results of this competition.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/ (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/)

I think there are some nice images here. My personal favorites are:

Seychelles, by Marcus Thim -> The winner, however I find the DOF a bit unusual, but I certainly like mood and lighting, especially the left part of the image
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/images/29840.jpg (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/images/29840.jpg)

Mountain Lake, by Stefaninho -> just love these type of scenes, although the snow has a bit strange hue and glow.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/images/30141.jpg (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/images/30141.jpg)

Grasslands, by A. C. Wolfe -> nothing much going on in regard to clouds and terrain but this just looks very natural to me, despite the slight lack of detail.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/images/29633.jpg (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/images/29633.jpg)

Unfortunately we'll probably never know about scene-development of these images, as well as rendertimes and other technical aspects.
Therefore it is still difficult to compare these with TG2.
However, judging from what I see I think it is pretty clear one can create very nice images using Vue.
Still, I think TG2 offers better terrain-features (speaks for itself) but also the lighting is more convincing.
In many of the images the lighting "feels artificial".

So far my ideas about the best work Vue can offer at the moment.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Seth on August 06, 2009, 07:10:29 pm
Wild Thing by AlienSkinsStudio is great too !
nice renders there !
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Henry Blewer on August 06, 2009, 07:14:44 pm
I downloaded the PLE version this morning. The program is sort of like Blender, thing wanted, buried in the lumber. I was unable to get a final render from it, the previews looked good. I do not understand why my contacts on Flickr who use it consistently  make sure mundane images.
First impression, Terragen 2 is better.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 06, 2009, 07:49:17 pm
Quote from: Seth on August 06, 2009, 07:10:29 pm
Wild Thing by AlienSkinsStudio is great too !
nice renders there !


It's from Martin J Birk and he used to do quite some TG as well back in "the 0.9x era".
Unfortunately he's not into TG anymore, perhaps because he couldn't get used to TG2, I don't know.
Anyhow, I though this image is indeed a wild thing, but not as nearly as good as some other in the gallerie.
The erosion channels are way too strongly colored to my taste and they look very flat/2D.
It also lacks scale and sense of depth.
It probably must be very difficult to do in Vue otherwise it wouldn't be rated so well by the judges.
I don't know much about Vue, so my opinion is not of great value at all ;D

Martin
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Henry Blewer on August 06, 2009, 09:12:21 pm
I can't seem to get the thing to render. It will do previews but that's not enough. Large procedural terrains really bog down the program on my p4 HT.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: FrankB on August 07, 2009, 02:47:28 am
the one with the pure grass landscape impresses me. It's simply photo realistic.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: PG on August 07, 2009, 06:29:50 am
I really want to like Wasteland but everything looks like it's been post worked in. :-\ Seychelles looks really bad compared to TG2, even compared to some of the other Vue renders in there actually. I wonder who he was sleeping with. ;D

Here are the other entrants by the way, if you're too lazy to click a link :D http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2009/?page=1
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Hetzen on August 07, 2009, 07:16:29 am
I've just spent the last half hour stepping through the submissions, and I haven't even reached the end yet. Which just goes to show how many people use Vue compared to TG2.

What put me off Vue, back at 6.5, is the almost 'squareness' off the pixelation in the detail, it was a nightmare to stop it from flickering over a few frames. My colleague found a route around this, no thanks to Vue's input by the way, to now find they've completely changed the render settings for 7. Not meant to be a bash at Vue, just venting some of my frustrations which are echoed in their user forums btw, (being an owner of Vue we do get to see what they are talking about).

Anyway, back on topic. There's some superb work in there, I think my favourite is...

http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?pid=30062&fullsize=1

Not because it's technically difficult or perfect, but because it looks right for a helicopter POV circalling those climbers, and I like the most important detail for the pic that being the trail of disrupted snow from the figures. I could see this shot being used in a film.

This next one would have been my favourite, quite simply it's stunning. Absolutely beautiful. The only thing that stops it from being a photograph over a painting, is the dreadfull AA...

http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?pid=30115&fullsize=1

Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: mr-miley on August 07, 2009, 07:20:52 am
The most realistic and pleasing one to me is Grasslands. Its about the only one of comparable TG2 quality.

Miles
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 07, 2009, 08:54:34 am
I just saw another nice one:

http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=41&pos=328&pid=29604 (http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=41&pos=328&pid=29604)

With a bit more underlit clouds and especially without the wrecked car this could be a fantastic image.

Something which "bothers" me with the majority of images in the gallery and probably in general: why do people ruin their scenes by stuffing every corner with useless models?
There was another quite nice entry of a jungle with mist etc. Shot from high altitude. But the foreground was stuffed with 3 airplanes and I just can't help thinking "WHYYY??"...sigh
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: mr-miley on August 07, 2009, 09:00:10 am
Why???? because they can!  ;D
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: mr-miley on August 07, 2009, 09:03:03 am
Damn, didn't notice that render (your link) That would be really nice if it weren't for that car and as you said about the clouds.... maybe with the camera raised a few metres too.

Miles
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 07, 2009, 09:25:56 am
Quote from: mr-miley on August 07, 2009, 09:00:10 am
Why???? because they can!  ;D


Ghehe, yes of course :)
But seriously: don't they realize they have a nice landscape and that the models really destroy it?
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 07, 2009, 09:26:18 am
Quote from: mr-miley on August 07, 2009, 09:03:03 am
Damn, didn't notice that render (your link) That would be really nice if it weren't for that car and as you said about the clouds.... maybe with the camera raised a few metres too.

Miles


Ah you're starting to see/understand :P lol
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Henry Blewer on August 07, 2009, 11:41:25 am
It's the car. It does not fit. It is good otherwise.
I have been playing with Vue, and I have been able to get good results; except it will not do a full render. It's been interesting, but I am going to stick with Terragen 2.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: dandelO on August 07, 2009, 06:35:06 pm
Good choice, Njeneb, good choice. :)

I never got off the ground much with Vue, either. It just doesn't make as much sense as TG, it isn't 'real' enough, you know? Everything is too 'CG-3d', even when just using the UI.
That isn't really what I mean but, TG is just more 'organic' and pliable, it does 'real' perfectly. I can't explain this correctly.

The thing is, Vue and Carrara's UI's are practically identical and I can use Carrara like a dream, it's my next-in-line app, and it's a full 3D application to boot, just like Vue, modelling, landscape, vegetation, etc. everything in a oner. Vue is sluggish and glitchy compared to Carrara and TG. Unfortunately, TG has no modeller, I don't expect it ever will with the way the UI and the current renderer works.

My render workflow usually goes; TG>>Carrara/Poseray>>TG>>Photoshop>>Finished.
Vue doesn't figure and I won't get any more of their updates, I still only own V.6.0.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: efflux on August 08, 2009, 02:32:10 am
Agree about the grass one. It's the only one getting close to TG2. I am really surprised at these images, considering how many people use Vue. If you went through the gallery here and chose the best landscape work there would simply be no competition. Vue would pale in comparison. Vue is good in some areas like vegetation but I rarely see any renders that have a feeling or atmosphere that you will see with many TG2 renders.

I would say that even although Vue appears to be getting better, the actual work being done in TG2 is better.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: efflux on August 08, 2009, 02:43:47 am
It's the atmospheres. No good atmospheres in those images but is this the fault of Vue or the artists?. You can get good atmospheres in Blender. I think it is largely the artists and that is why the Martin J. Birk is good. He knows about these things more than the other artists.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Henry Blewer on August 08, 2009, 08:22:06 am
The contacts I have on Flickr don't seem to know how the program works. I am just getting a feel for what T2 is capable of. I keep trying to push; learn a new function, make power fractals do more. I just discovered the warp shader...
I think many Vue users just add elements to their landscapes with out making decisions of what the landscape should be first.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: efflux on August 08, 2009, 07:11:03 pm
My findings are that landscapes have such subtle details that it takes a long time to work out how to get it right no matter what app you use or even if you are just painting landscapes.
Title: Re: Vue 3D Environment Competition 2009
Post by: Henry Blewer on August 08, 2009, 08:12:00 pm
I agree. When I get the full version, I want to have 'planned' my landscapes. Currently, with the 3 object limit, I does not work well. But using just procedurals, planning makes things come together better.