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Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: PG on September 08, 2009, 08:19:47 am

Title: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: PG on September 08, 2009, 08:19:47 am
I couldn't see this in any old topic, basically I can't change the number of faces in a rock object without frequent crashes. I basically have to be very careful when moving the slider, not moving it too fast or TG2'll crash. I'm using the latest release version (non-alpha) 2.0.3.1
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 08, 2009, 08:42:44 am
I had a crash the other day removing a surface layer from the node network. I added it by mistake.
I have had update problems similar to this you describe PG. I started inputing the numbers using the keyboard. It keeps the program from constantly trying to update as the slider moves. I find it easier to just input via the keyboard.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: PG on September 08, 2009, 09:08:15 am
ok, I'll try that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: jo on September 08, 2009, 09:01:19 pm
Hi PG,

Do you have a project file you could send me with a rock object you're having problems with? I tried to reproduce this myself but didn't have any luck.

On Windows the way the progress dialog keeps popping up as you change the settings is incredibly irritating, we should do something about that.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 08, 2009, 09:44:56 pm
@Jo, it may be something which only affects older computers, running a single thread for T2. Also it may only be a difficulty on some operations.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: jo on September 08, 2009, 10:58:10 pm
Hi njeneb,

Well, I was trying it on a 5 or 6 year old 3 GHz P4, which is my main work PC. I only have it rendering with a single thread, it has HT but it generally slows it down.

Anyway, the number of threads shouldn't matter in this case. The TG2 UI is almost entirely single threaded. If you are trying to change settings while doing a full render then you will almost certainly crash.

For those who are shocked at my work PC ;-), I also run Windows on newer Intel Macs, but the P4 is the main one I use for Windows development. 64 bit Windows development will be happening on an 8 core Nehalem Xeon running Vista 64 or perhaps Windows 7. I just mention that because people like to tell me off about the machines I use ;-).

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: PG on September 09, 2009, 05:55:26 am
It happens on any project file, even creating a new one. I would post one but obviously TG2 keeps crashing before I can save :D I'm having to use tgdcli if that makes any difference. The normal tgd.exe doesn't run as I posted in another thread. Also I'm using a core 2 quad q9550. I upgrade my machine 2 components at a time every 3 months.
I'll make a video of it.

P.s. Yeah I was shocked at that jo.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 09, 2009, 08:05:44 am
Some day when I can get a new machine, this P4 HT will still be a workhorse. It only is beginning to show difficulty running newer heavy 3D games. I think a new graphics card will solve that. I still miss my Amiga 4000. That machine was out performing many PC's five and six years after I bought it. 8)
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: jo on September 09, 2009, 08:28:44 am
Hi PG,

Quote from: PG on September 09, 2009, 05:55:26 am
It happens on any project file, even creating a new one. I would post one but obviously TG2 keeps crashing before I can save :D I'm having to use tgdcli if that makes any difference. The normal tgd.exe doesn't run as I posted in another thread. Also I'm using a core 2 quad q9550. I upgrade my machine 2 components at a time every 3 months.


I was hoping you might have a project file with rocks set up you were working on that was already saved prior to the crashing. Like I said, unfortunately I can't reproduce this myself, which makes it very tricky to debug.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 09, 2009, 08:35:01 am
I'll give it a try later today. My stomach is sending me hate mail. When I get back from the store I may have a file and some better insight on the rock faces and why this may be causing crashes. It's 8:35am here. I should have something by 11:00 am.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: PG on September 09, 2009, 09:12:41 am
Like I say, it happens on new projects as well as old, so it's nothing particular to one tgd. I've saved one with a rock in without changing the faces though. And here's that video. It may well be something to do with that progress window. Maybe it crashes if you try to do something before it's finished with it, it seems to update every time the value changes so if you slide it down it'll update maybe 5 times before you get to the one you were looking for. Doesn't happen if you type it but the progress window takes Windows focus away from the textbox everytime you input a digit.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X1VHQ9N8
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 09, 2009, 09:40:47 am
Hey Jo,
This is what I learned. It does not crash my system P4 HT, 2 gigs, Vista 32 bit. I tried both a single rock and a huge population. What I did find was the entire program window flashes. It's like the update for the faces  is causing a total redraw of the program interface. The effect is very rapid, so the crash PG is experiencing may be to a graphics card not having enough buffer memory.

I hope this helps. I did not include a tgd file. It does not seem needed in my case.

Hello PG,
Before you start moving the slider on your rock/rock population, please save the file. I think a file from your computer is the only way to trace this.

Thanks. I'm cooking buffalo wings!
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: PG on September 09, 2009, 10:28:11 am
I doubt my GPU is out of GRAM. I've have a GTX 295, the most powerful consumer GPU on the market.
Not sure what you mean about the saved file. I have attached a TGD with a rock object in it. It hasn't been saved with the slider moved as this would cause TG2 to crash.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 09, 2009, 02:56:20 pm
Jo needs the file. He is looking for some kind of break or call from th routine which may be causing the crash.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: PG on September 09, 2009, 03:31:16 pm
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=7489.msg79922#msg79922
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 09, 2009, 05:07:12 pm
Oops... :-[
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: jo on September 09, 2009, 08:09:56 pm
Hi njeneb,

Quote from: njeneb on September 09, 2009, 09:40:47 am
This is what I learned. It does not crash my system P4 HT, 2 gigs, Vista 32 bit. I tried both a single rock and a huge population. What I did find was the entire program window flashes. It's like the update for the faces  is causing a total redraw of the program interface. The effect is very rapid, so the crash PG is experiencing may be to a graphics card not having enough buffer memory.


That flashing is almost certainly due to the progress dialog popping up and then closing quickly as you change the settings.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: jo on September 09, 2009, 08:13:23 pm
Hi PG,

Quote from: PG on September 09, 2009, 09:12:41 am
Like I say, it happens on new projects as well as old, so it's nothing particular to one tgd. I've saved one with a rock in without changing the faces though. And here's that video. It may well be something to do with that progress window. Maybe it crashes if you try to do something before it's finished with it, it seems to update every time the value changes so if you slide it down it'll update maybe 5 times before you get to the one you were looking for. Doesn't happen if you type it but the progress window takes Windows focus away from the textbox everytime you input a digit.


Thanks, I'm downloading the video now. The crash could be related to the rapid appearance and disappearances of the progress window. That behaviour needs to changed regardless. Popping up all the time like that is ridiculous and stealing the focus like it does is terrible.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Matt on September 09, 2009, 08:50:26 pm
Quote from: njeneb on September 09, 2009, 08:05:44 am
I still miss my Amiga 4000. That machine was out performing many PC's five and six years after I bought it. 8)


People will never know...

Matt
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: jo on September 09, 2009, 09:52:46 pm
Quote from: Matt on September 09, 2009, 08:50:26 pm
People will never know...


Get over it ;-). I enjoyed my C64, I learnt to program on it and I still think Winter Games is one of the best games ever, but I've moved on :-).

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 10, 2009, 01:53:41 am
Jo,
You have never programmed a computer where the company actually wanted you to be able to access everything in the OS and hardware. No secret, secret paranoid Microsoft stuff. But you are right, it is time to move on. :'(

Edit: Maybe you did? Anyway, I get nostalgic, I had years of fun with Amiga.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Matt on September 11, 2009, 08:31:51 pm
I'll move on when I see an OS with unfailingly smooth multitasking, window updating and response to my inputs, glitch-free audio and video playback. Still can't find that 20 years later.

Matt
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 11, 2009, 09:18:24 pm
Don't forget the CPU slot. 'My Amiga is too slow! :'(  Oh, there's a new CPU board. Purchase new board, comes with oodles of ram, all 32 bit, 64 bit processor! Overclock it. Start computer with new CPU and 2 hour Lightwave renders now take 30 minutes!

PC manufacturers need to be reminded of this feature. If I could upgrade my current machine this way it would be great.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Matt on September 11, 2009, 11:12:49 pm
Sorry njeneb, but I disagree with you here. Much as I love the Amiga for everything it did that PCs don't, upgradability is one of the PC's strengths. Purchasing a new motherboard, 64-bit processor, RAM, plug it into your box with existing hard drive and peripherals.. how is that an Amiga-only thing? Where did you get your PC?

EDIT: OK, maybe it was a bit easier with the Amiga :)  Just plug it in and go.
Title: Re: Crash on changing rock object faces
Post by: Henry Blewer on September 11, 2009, 11:32:43 pm
Can I just buy a new motherboard for my Dell E510? I have already upgraded nearly everything else. What fits? I do have a 750 watt Power Supply now. I have to go to work... Now you've got me thinking and I would be able to research this until morning. (Sigh)