Thanks very much everyone, I meant to comment on a few things but the last couple days have been busy! You may certainly be right about the highlights Ulco, though the water is very shallow where you can see the stones. I'll have to pay attention in the spring when next I get out to a lake that isn't frozen, see if I notice any reflectiveness at all from any stones underwater. I have the bottom section rendering again at Detail 3 as Martin suggested and I also removed the reflective shader from the stones so we'll see how it looks. Looks pretty good so far if slightly less interesting without the highlights. Should be able to get it put together for tomorrow.