Heightfield Maps from Fractal Terrains

jvillinger · May 27, 2011, 09:05:29 AM

Hi, new here and first post. Apologies if the thread has been done before.

I want to be able to use the program 'Fractal Terrains' to create a world map, then export it as a height field that Terragen 2 can understand and be able to apply to an entire planet.
Question:
How do I do this?

The reason I'm asking about this is because rather than using a Power Fractal like I usually do and have a whole bunch of random mountains I want to be able to make desert flats, vast oceans, and other unique features. I'm sure all of this is possible in Terragen anyway but I'm not yet competent to do these things. Has anyone had any experience with Fractal terrains or a similar 2D planet map drawing program and then importing it into Terragen? Is it even possible?

Thanks in advance.

jvillinger · May 30, 2011, 03:50:39 AM

Okay apparently no one really knows about Fractal Terrains.

So let me put it this way:

I want to be able to generate a heightfield for an entire planet with continents, deserts, badlands, mountains covered with ice, oceans, and so on. I would only want to resort to a Power Fractal as a last resort quite simply because zoomed out it doesn't look like a planet at all.

airflamesred · May 30, 2011, 07:21:17 AM

Well a heightfeild of an entire planet is just not going to work. You would have to do it in sections to keep it manageable. Are you going to animate this monster project?

Hetzen · May 30, 2011, 07:22:21 AM

How close do you want to go in on the planet? If you're looking at this from low orbit, your map is still going to have to be quite large. In fact 20k resoltion is not unheard of. And that will not hold up if you want to get any closer.

PFs are the way to go I'm afraid, if you want to have the camera explore the landscape.

Henry Blewer · May 30, 2011, 08:06:42 AM

You can use image maps for an approximate 'look' for a real landscape at planetary scale. As Hetzen says, you need to fill in the details using various shaders.

jvillinger · May 31, 2011, 05:07:47 AM

Quote from: airflamesred on May 30, 2011, 07:21:17 AM
Well a heightfeild of an entire planet is just not going to work. You would have to do it in sections to keep it manageable. Are you going to animate this monster project?

I won't be animating, rather just rendering still images at a fairly high quality. Time isn't an issue for the rendering so long as my computer doesn't run out of memory and crash I'm happy.

How do I do this in sections as you have suggested? For the oceans do I just zoom out and fill a lake in using a painted shader or something?

Can I place a power fractal and then specify regions which need to have a much lower altitude and those that need a much higher altitude? This way I could put a lake in with a height of say... 0... and then the painted fractal with different heights would do the rest. Is this possible?

Also, the power fractal is great for hilly terrain, but suppose I want a very flat expansive desert / badlands / grassy field from time to time? Is there any way I can achieve this where a power fractal varies in it's scale and fluctuations?

Quote from: Hetzen on May 30, 2011, 07:22:21 AM
How close do you want to go in on the planet? If you're looking at this from low orbit, your map is still going to have to be quite large. In fact 20k resoltion is not unheard of. And that will not hold up if you want to get any closer.

PFs are the way to go I'm afraid, if you want to have the camera explore the landscape.

I want to be able to make a picture of the planet from space (so that the oceans and continents can clearly be seen) but on the opposite end of the spectrum I wish to be able to still zoom in on various pockets, add a few objects here and there, and render some fairly believable up-close terrain too.

Are there any other methods available for generating a planet in this way?

Tangled-Universe · May 31, 2011, 07:21:34 AM

It's probably me, but I think you're making this a bit too complicated.
Since you won't need to animate it and only need stills you can get away with a lot of cheats.

For instance: you won't need to animate a "from orbit to planet surface" shot, so there's no need to create a planet with continents *which is also* detailed enough at very low altitude/planet surface. No one will ever be able to tell "hmmm that mountain in the background looks sooo different from space"

You could even create a separate .tgd/project-file for every type of terrain you're trying to achieve. Getting everything on one single planet is just unnecessarily complicated as you would need to mask out everything separately.

Search the forum for "continents" etc. and you'll find some projectfiles of entire planets with continents and seas. I believe "cyphyr" did a fair amount of work on this. So you can use that for space shots.
Depending of what you're after I'd then move to DEM-files for pieces of realistic terrain base for low altitude/close up shots.

We can all help you with that, just don't try too much at once.

Cheers,
Martin

jvillinger · May 31, 2011, 07:35:44 AM

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 31, 2011, 07:21:34 AM
It's probably me, but I think you're making this a bit too complicated.
Since you won't need to animate it and only need stills you can get away with a lot of cheats.

For instance: you won't need to animate a "from orbit to planet surface" shot, so there's no need to create a planet with continents *which is also* detailed enough at very low altitude/planet surface. No one will ever be able to tell "hmmm that mountain in the background looks sooo different from space"

You could even create a separate .tgd/project-file for every type of terrain you're trying to achieve. Getting everything on one single planet is just unnecessarily complicated as you would need to mask out everything separately.

Search the forum for "continents" etc. and you'll find some projectfiles of entire planets with continents and seas. I believe "cyphyr" did a fair amount of work on this. So you can use that for space shots.
Depending of what you're after I'd then move to DEM-files for pieces of realistic terrain base for low altitude/close up shots.

We can all help you with that, just don't try too much at once.

Thank-you this information was useful.

These continents you speak of that were made by Cyphyr and others, are they pre-made continents? I ask this because I want to be able to make my own so they are unique. I assume there are guides on this? I'll search the forums now.

But yeah at the end of the day I just want a nice planet view which has oceans, deserts, continents, grasslands etc. And secondly some good close-ups which can be achieved with any other guides. I've only just started using the program. I've attached a draft of a render below. Is it okay? Generic models were used.

cyphyr · May 31, 2011, 07:54:41 AM

Hi
Link to the Fully Procedural Planet I was working on a while ago.
The principle is fairly basic, very large low octave power fractals warped by slightly smaller, slightly higher octave power fractals. This ensures you have a decent coast line rather than a band of lakes and islands. Different areas are created with yet smaller power fractals which delineate where mountains, hills, planes and other major features are located. These areas are also warped by the main warper so the follow the coast line and create mountain ranges in believable places.
That's the basic idea, it dose need a massive amount of tweaking so have fun

Richard

jvillinger · May 31, 2011, 08:08:24 AM

Quote from: cyphyr on May 31, 2011, 07:54:41 AM
Hi
Link to the Fully Procedural Planet I was working on a while ago.
The principle is fairly basic, very large low octave power fractals warped by slightly smaller, slightly higher octave power fractals. This ensures you have a decent coast line rather than a band of lakes and islands. Different areas are created with yet smaller power fractals which delineate where mountains, hills, planes and other major features are located. These areas are also warped by the main warper so the follow the coast line and create mountain ranges in believable places.
That's the basic idea, it dose need a massive amount of tweaking so have fun
Richard

Thanks heaps for this. Your work is much appreciated. I downloaded the file and am exploring it now. It will take me a while to make sense of it all. If I have any questions about it is it okay if I message you?

My first question I have, I have disabled the SeaSand, and I am now inside the +Continent+Landmass folder. The instruction says to choose a new seed for the fractals. Does this just mean I change the 'random seed' for 'Power Fractal shader v3 01'?

Cheers

jvillinger · May 31, 2011, 08:17:21 AM

I just chose a random seed and did a quick render. Wow. Amazing. The Terragen team should hire you.

The planet I'm going to make is mostly desert with a few small oceans. Grasslands and forests are lightly interspersed in between the deserts and around various Oasis's.

If I can achieve this then the concept art I'm making will be almost complete! You are a legend. Thanks Richard!

-James

Tangled-Universe · May 31, 2011, 09:18:36 AM

Well for someone who just started with TG2 that render looks just very nice!

Glad you've found the planet-stuff from Richard which I've mentioned.
Logically, as he's the creator, you can ask him best about how and what.

If you need any help with other stuff for the close ups then don't hesitate to ask.

cyphyr · May 31, 2011, 09:31:03 AM

Your very welcome and please do ask (I may be slow to answer as I'm rather busy, and there are an awful lot of answers and solutions these days so you might as well post publicly)
The Procedural planet set up is complex but then so are planets in reality. If I remember correctly (which I may very well not be) then the sea bed feature is basically a yellow brown sand feature extending up to 0m. It was made for an eath type planet with oceans, so if your planet is not of this type disabling that feature will be fine.
Cheers
Richard

jvillinger · May 31, 2011, 11:39:33 PM

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 31, 2011, 09:18:36 AM
Well for someone who just started with TG2 that render looks just very nice!

Glad you've found the planet-stuff from Richard which I've mentioned.
Logically, as he's the creator, you can ask him best about how and what.

If you need any help with other stuff for the close ups then don't hesitate to ask.

Awesome. Thanks very much.

Quote from: cyphyr on May 31, 2011, 09:31:03 AM
Your very welcome and please do ask (I may be slow to answer as I'm rather busy, and there are an awful lot of answers and solutions these days so you might as well post publicly)
The Procedural planet set up is complex but then so are planets in reality. If I remember correctly (which I may very well not be) then the sea bed feature is basically a yellow brown sand feature extending up to 0m. It was made for an eath type planet with oceans, so if your planet is not of this type disabling that feature will be fine.
Cheers
Richard

No need to explain late replies, after all you have given this to the community for free! I'll fiddle around with it when I get some time and if I have any major issues I'll post them as separate threads with the 'Procedural Planet' and your name in the title thread. Again cheers.