A Question

[rcallicotte]

This is not meant to be sarcastic nor cutting and is a real question.  I'd like anyone's perspective, but especially someone from Planetside.  We have many ways to do workarounds right now, since a number of features are either broken or not working yet.  I understand this, so this isn't a complaint about where we are with the program.

My question - Is the fact that we are learning workarounds to the TG2 program going to assist us with more of a practical understanding, which we can use when TG2 goes retail, or is learning all of these workarounds a detriment to using TG2 properly once everything is fixed?  One thing I'm certain about is that it's possible to figure out something to make a program work and still not know anything about using it as a tool and using it properly. 

I don't mind testing and assisting Planetside with bugs to some degree, but I'm more interested in learning how things will produce what I want to produce by using TG2 as it's created to be utilized.  And I hope this is seen in light of how much I love this application.   

[DeathTwister]

Hay Calico,

Atually I think it a very good question and as you I in no way am whining or complaining, but there is something to be said for learning stuff the wrong way, in this case workarounds.  And it is harder to re-learn stuff after you learn to do something one way, so that could be an issue later on and I agree there, but......

On the up side we do get to play with this awesome software while it is being put together and after it does have the final release we will be pretty much masters at this stuff and way ahead of the pack, or people that waited till all the goodies were fixed or put in.

  Remember at Aaron's website as you know at http://www.bundysoft.com/L3DT/ we had a very good time helping Aaron put together L3DT and it went very well I thought with all the bugs. He works wonderful with people.

  Now look at how awesome he and with others help with Garage games and others how far it has come? So while we are learning the wrong way in some things this program, I think by the end we are all so more ahead of the game and we have been able to get some input in to not just help Planet Side, but ourselves as well.  That has to be a win win situation don't you think?

  HAhaha lolol ROTFL and like you I would love to be on their Beta test team, I am sure they have my email if they need me or us /winks /chuckles....hahahahaha........

  Speaking of beta testing, I am back over to Constructor and get back to work on that one hahahah ROTFL lololol..........Another awesome program that was released maybe a bit early but well worth it and in my mind it runs like a bat out of hell, meaning awesome GG simply awesome.....

TG and L3DT work very well together so far in all ways I have found. tgd2 has yet to get exports....?? Good seeing your posts again Calico brother, wheres your entry in the OR comp? by the way?? /smiles....

DT

[rcallicotte]

What is L3DT and GG?  And my submission was just too large, since I left it in TIF and pumped the quality way up. 

[DeathTwister]

Hay Cal,

  Haha GG is Garage Games http://garagegames.com/ Video Game engine Tech

And L3DT is at: http://www.bundysoft.com/L3DT/
Large Terrain generator program that is awesome and works well with TG and TGD2. You get different kind of terrain control.

Very cool places to play besides Plantside.

DT

[Oshyan]

Calico, these are certainly valid concerns. Although I can't say in every situation this would be the case, I do think that many of these workarounds have the potential to teach you more about the application, even if they don't teach you the "right" way to do things. In most cases a workaround will not later be disabled and it is always good to know multiple ways to accomplish a goal, so this knowledge is certainly not wasted.

If you take the time to understand why a particular workaround is possible then it can also help to understand how TG2 itself works. For example the experiments being done now to produce a "transparency" effect on the water show us that water can be mapped with a texture just like anything else - that, unlike in TG 0.9, water is not really a unique "thing", but more like another surface shader in effect. Likewise the surf/foam effects people are creating show a similar underlying functionality in the water shader.

- Oshyan

[bigben]

I have certainly found that it was necessary to remind myself now and then that I'm working with a preview version and that while figuring out workarounds is educational, there comes a point where you have to draw the line in spending time on a workaround that you may rely on, only to have to redo things once TG works as you would expect it to. 

To use my recent lighting experiments as an example, turning GI off and setting up multiple lights works well, and fixes some key problems like GI not working on fake stones or objects *BUT* I also found myself trying to do things at times that were done much better by GI. The added complexity meant I would have been wasting a lot of time.... so instead I've decided to keep my lighting tests much simpler for my own current uses (TGDs with fake stones and objects) and run extra tests of lighting with GI on with only those things that GI does work with so that I'm ready for when it is fixed.

Water is probably another good example, with lots of workarounds for subsurface detail that only work from certain camera angles that will also be redundant in the future.  It all depends on how badly you want to do it now (or is that *NOW!!!*  )

[Matt]

Hi Ben,

GI should work with objects and there are plenty of examples where it has done. Can you send me a sample project where it's not working so I can try to identify the problem?

Matt

[bigben]

It's at home   I can post it to my site tonight. It may have been my monitor???  It was mainly that the changes to the terrain were quite substantial but the tree didn't seem to change much.  I'll load the images in Photoshop and compare the colours. 

Test renders are in http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=1402.0
First image is with fill lights only, second has GI turned on as well.

Only the leaf stems are an image texture, the rest is TG surfaces.

[bigben]

Had a closer look  There is a difference in the leaves, and the trunk is very dark in the first. I'll have to try changing the surfaces on the tree to balance things a bit more.