Object => Planes

Started by Upon Infinity, July 24, 2012, 02:44:30 AM

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Upon Infinity

Heya,

I'm trying to image map some .jpg's onto a plane object (flat sheet) and I'm having some trouble getting the image to perfectly match the shape of the plane.  It kind of looks like I'm getting the image but only a small, zoomed in portion of it.  Can anyone here describe a decent way of doing this or point to a thread that does?

Tangled-Universe

I'm not sure whether the plane object has UV's.
I never tried this, so no idea yet.

cyphyr

The plane object has no UV's as far as I know. The easiest way would be to use a third party modelling package, and make your plane with it's UV's in there and then import your modelled plane with the UV attached.
Cheers
Richard
www.richardfraservfx.com
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
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Ryzen 9 5950X OC@4Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 4:13)

AndyWelder

In 2008 I did what you're trying to achieve: I used an image map shader for the colour function of the plane's surface shader. The image was projected through the render camera, (See attached .TGD)
A year later I did use this method to create a rusty corrugated iron roof except that this time the projection type was "Plan Y". (See attached .TGD)
"Ik rotzooi maar wat aan" Karel Appel

Upon Infinity

Okay, I think I'm starting to see what at least part of my problem is;  and that is the plane is very dependent on the light source.  The light source has to be on the side of the plane with the image map, or it won't work. 

So, does anyone know how to apply luminosity to the problem, and make the surface independent of the light source.  Also, is there a third party modelling program you would recommend for setting up UV's (whatever they are)?

TheBadger

#5
Quoteis there a third party modelling program you would recommend for setting up UV's (whatever they are)?

Hi.

It sounds like you want something simple and to the point. Blender would be one free option. But Blender is probably over kill if all you want to do is some basic modeling.

Hexagon2 Is what I am using for modeling. I needed to learn how to model because I couldn't afford to buy every single model I needed. And to make my own "hero" objects.

Hex2 is a modeling only app. Very simple UI, has lots of tutorials and is free. The tutorials are free too.
Even if you want a "complete" 3D package at some point, learning to model in hexagon first will save you a lot of stress. And though the UIs of other programs will be different the methods you learn will transfer.

Yes, you can UV map in Hex2. The process is a little idiosyncratic, but simple and effective nonetheless.

http://www.daz3d.com/products/hexagon/hexagon-what-is-hexagon

If you decide to go with Hex, let me know here and I will save you some time by linking you to the tuts you need for the job you described.

Watching the tuts will take you longer than doing the work ;D



*actually. If all you want is a plane object (flat surface) that is UV mapped. I could probably through that together for you in about 5 seconds. Yes, thats how easy what your asking for is, in basic terms.
Though, if you like 3D you should definitely learn how to model. 
It has been eaten.

Upon Infinity

Yeah, Hexagon sounds more like what I'm looking for.  I was also looking at Google Sketchup, but haven't DL'd it yet.
And yes, as far as this whole planes thing goes, it is a very simple project, just that Terragen is being a little temperamental about the planes (a rotation option would go a long way to saving my sanity).  And even once I've got the plane textured right, I still don't know if that will solve my lighting issues.

But really, what I'm attempting to do with the plane object is to slide it behind my render scene as a substitution for Terragen's native clouds (my own photographs being the substitution) and to have the plane object render like a normal object, except that it is lit the same weather it is being hit by light or lies in shadow. 

*And yes, all I want is a plane object that is UV mapped with the dimensions being that a standard 35mm photo ratio (4:3).  I was under the impression you'd need the image to do this, but if you can set up a template .tgc, I'd be grateful.  In the event that you do need the photo, I'd better learn to do it myself (I need the modeler anyway, so send the links) because you'd have to do it several dozen times.

Below is a failed test, but I think it illustrates what I'm looking for.

TheBadger

#7
QuoteI was also looking at Google Sketchup, but haven't DL'd it yet.

Someone should correct me if Im wrong, but the 'free version' of sketchup does not allow you to export .obj. Or so I remember.

Hex is a "complete" modeling app. And works much more like the major packages than sketchup. I have an old version of sketchup and it *is* easy to use, but I didn't get the feeling that using it was a great investment.
On the other hand, Hex2 may not be under further development, and it has a few bugs. But I do recommend it over sketchup by far.
Modeling is time consuming but comparably less complicated to other aspects of 3D work (I find). And Hex made the learning process very easy for me. Add to all that, that its free. And yes, this is a glowing recommendation.

Quote...I was under the impression you'd need the image to do this...

It would be easier for you if I had the image. And yes, the proper way to do it would be to have the image on the object before you export your .obj.
But its the object that is mapped not the texture. If I sent you a .obj at the correct proportions, then you could just load the image and it should show up. But there could be issues that are avoidable.

Quotebut if you can set up a template .tgc, I'd be grateful.

I can get you an .obj which is a few less steps for me. I will just find an image online of a sky, at the correct aspect ratio. you would just go into the object node and load your own image.

But I need just a little more information first. Is the object (plane) just a flat sheet like a piece of paper, or does it have depth as well as H&W? can it or should it have depth?
You will need to PM me your E-mail.


Quote(I need the modeler anyway, so send the links)

Do all of the tuts in the first link and you will know how to use Hex for basic things.
I will give you links for tuts on mapping that are better than the 2 in this list, less confusing.

Introduction:
http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/begining.php

100 or so general tuts. Very helpful and easy to follow. Just do the ones that interest you, come back to the others when you need them.
http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/index0.php

five more that are pretty nice.
http://3dexport.com/3dtuts/category/3d-tutorials/hexagon/

MAPPING:
http://www.geekatplay.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1067
^^this is how you should do ALL of your mapping in Hex. Dont do it the auto way, even if the auto mapping actually works, do it manually.

Do this tut below and you will know how to map and use photoshop with Hex. This tut has everything you need to know based on this thread. (5 parts)
1) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade1
2) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade2
3) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade3
4) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade4
5) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade5


Background Map (not a tut but helpful info)
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/775/

Sculpting in Hex2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC7kKWR6Nws&feature=player_detailpage


Its 4AM where I am. I'm done for the night now. If I see something from you tonight Ill send that .obj.

Good luck.

It has been eaten.

Upon Infinity

4am?  lol  It's only 3am here in Calgary.  Good to know I'm not the only night owl...


Thanks for all the links.  I am certain they'll keep me busy for awhile.

Concerning the plane object.  Yeah, pretty much a flat sheet.  It doesn't need depth, but it can still have it, as the sides will not be shown in any scenes.  As long as it isn't a box and hard to distinguish where the sides are, I have no problems with it. E-mail will be in the PM.


TheBadger

Cheers, man.

I'll send you the object in the afternoon. No problem. it will take all of a min or two.

But I bet if you started on those tuts now you would know how to build just about anything by tonight.

See ya later.
It has been eaten.

TheBadger

Sent to your e-mail.

Let me know that you got it.
It has been eaten.

Upon Infinity

Got it.  Haven't tested it yet, but I'll let you know.  Thanks again.

Upon Infinity

And just like that...history was made!

Now I have to learn how to model.  How hard could it be???

TheBadger

#13
Wow man, that works really well!

I understand what you did here, but I would like some details about the how.

Obviously you put the textured object in the sky. But with everything TG2 related I am sure there is a lot more to it than whats obvious.

Would you mind writing a brief tut of your method including tips for avoiding issues. I know that Tg2 takes color information from imported images. But how did you match up the lighting? Does the method work as well over land as it does a flat reflective surface? Please go into detail if you have time.

I think this method would be a much better solution for my photo compositing with TG2, than what I have tried so far.

QuoteNow I have to learn how to model.  How hard could it be?

Personally, I think basic modeling is the easiest aspect of the 3D workflow. The mechanics of modeling are, I think, much more straight forward than say the process of working between TG2, Maya and some compositing software. But I am just referring to basic things in modeling; making an object of some kind and putting a texture on it.

Of course modeling is very time consuming. It can take a long time to build something that looks just the way you want it to. But the good news is you get to spend all that work time working, and not just trying to understand how software functions.

I'm telling you! Do those tuts (it will take you like one day) and you will know how to model! After that you can just find tuts on specific things and you will be able to follow them, even translate the info to Hex if the tuts are for other software. Buy grass and trees and normal things from vendors like Silva3D or NWDA, but make your own Heros!

P.S

O yeah. Probably the reason that the TG2 plane object is not mapped if it is in fact not mapped  (my guess) is because people may need to change the dimensions of the object from default settings. And I would think that would mess up the mapping.
It has been eaten.

Upon Infinity

#14
It's ironic you're asking me how it's done, and you did half the work. lol

As far as writing tut's goes, I don't know if that's in the cards, and it's far from perfected.  Even this scene I scrapped together in about 5 mins (and thus, did not test it under a lot of different circumstances).  Although at this point, I'm confident it will work the way I want it to (finally).  But I can tell you what I did and it's actually quite a bit less than what's obvious and so simple you'll kick yourself.

I know Hollywood does this sort of thing all the time, and the 3-D purists will scoff, I'm sure.  And even though I'm very impressed with Terragen's cloud engine, for some things, I just want to use my own photographs that I've saved specifically for a project I've been working on for years.  I could easily slide this into photoshop and do the same thing (with even more options), however, in the case of having something in front of the sky backdrop -foliage, for instance - that process is a little difficult and tends to leave annoying artifacts between the branches and leaves and is not ideal.

Essentially, there are 4 of the mapped plane objects in the scene that you provided me with.  The first three are obvious, they are the 3 nonsensically hanging in mid-air above the lake (done to make sure I can reproduce what I wanted).  The 4th is the large sky object in the background.  The *only difference* between the one in the background and the ones in the front is the scale. 

It's the lighting I'm sure you're most curious about, and the magic of that is, there is none.  Well, obviously the scene is lit, but I stripped away any and all lighting effects.  Turn Off Shadows on the mapped plane objects and crank the Translucency to 1 for the mapped plane and viola!  They will very much appear in the render as the original files do when browsing them in your folder (although these are a little bit brighter, I'm confident I can correct later, somehow).

I can definitely offer a few tips for avoiding issues, however.  In most cases, animation is out, if that's your thing.  Otherwise you're looking at a forced perspective nightmare.  For the same reason, you kind of need some generic, high-quality photographs (royalty free or self-created, if you want to avoid trouble) of skies, clouds, or anything else you want to use this technique for.  And these pictures will sort of have to 'go' with your image.  This is a subjective, artistic thing you sort of have to 'feel' out.  A good rule of thumb to (almost) always go by, is the sky is brighter than the ground in (almost) all cases.  Also, the angle at which you render your scene should be very close to the angle that the photograph was taken.  In my case, clouds that are directly above you, will appear different than clouds at the horizon. 

The single biggest problem I imagine in getting things to mesh together nicely, it the atmosphere in Terragen. Removing your mapped plane from the effects of light is easy, but if you place your mapped plane too far away from the camera, it will begin to collect atmosphere in front of it and then things can deteriorate quickly as far as maintaining the illusion.  This is the problem I was getting when I was using the plane object last night.  I didn't save any except the one I posted a few comments ago (however that was a quick test scene, and not a good example, because the light is in front).  It is possible, if your atmosphere is constant, to have atmosphere in front of the plane, but much of TG's atmosphere is not (which is it's strength), as it tapers away with height and increases with distance.  Still you might get away with it, if you're particularly clever and can match up the distant haze and atmosphere to the bottom part of your sky (maybe they're both white at such a great distance).

In any event, I still have a lot more testing to do.  Certainly it won't work for every scene, and the simpler the scene, and the closer the plane to the camera, the better.  If I run some more tests in the next few days, I'll post them to this thread.

I'm looking forward to modeling, I just hope texturing isn't another nightmare beyond that.

And I'd like to know more about the photo compositing you're doing.  And what's a Hero object?



Also, the TG2 plane object and I are no longer on speaking terms...and the future doesn't look good either.