The Plant Factory Discussion - share your experience and workflow etc. :)

Started by Tangled-Universe, June 11, 2013, 05:37:05 AM

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mhaze

Here's a very simple badly executed rushed example

TheBadger

Thanks a lot! Mhaze
So I am really looking forward to knowing for my self how this can work for me!  ;D

@efflux
I agree with you, at least in principal on a ton of stuff. But on this issue it comes down to me wanting to spend more time in a gallery than a studio. So to speak.  ;) I love looking at art more than I love making it. But if I want to look at art I made, well, then I have to make it, obviously :o.
Speed and efficiency is my single most important concern with plant soft. And thats why I gave in and bought.
There is no way Im going to spend the time to sculpt a whole forest. And believe it or not, I do have a goal of making an entire eco system, (sort of).

My plan is to measure out a square (of some to be determined size.) near my home, and reproduce ALL of the plants with-in that square.
trees, bushes, weeds, everything. And also variations of each plant.

We had to do this in an ecology class I took at school. We would go to a forest. and everyone would measure-out in meters, a square shape. And we would have to identify (in the classes case) all the trees that fell in our zone. It was rather tedious because then we would also have to explain what type of tree it was, not just what it was named. Identify the leaves, describe important facts. So on and so forth.
Anyway, thats what I want to try and do here.
...

from the old thread.
QuoteBtw, I can't check your UV issue at the moment. Every tree that I export right now is exported without materials, even though I managed to do it once for the leaves render that I've shown before.  It appears to be a bug in the pre-release.

Im getting nervous again
QuoteNo need to become nervous yet Michael...it's a beta version, still.

And still is a beta too. But now Im worried because you guys have had a good while to come to some conclusions, or at least strong feelings about what you bought. But theres been not much talk at all!

Are you guys being quiet because your busy people with busy lives, or because this soft just pisses you off so much you can't speak?!!

HOWS THE WEATHER UP THERE?!
It has been eaten.

Tangled-Universe

Hi Michael,

At the moment mostly too busy with other things.
Especially because in the past 5 months weather has been utterly crap and now it's finally good weather, so little PC time now.

On top of that there are still some export issues and other issues with TPF and thus I'm not rushing to get really serious with it.
I have stated before in other places that if it turns out not to be working together with TG or any other obj-accepting 3rd party software I will happily pass it on to a Vue owner.

So at the moment I'm also waiting for important stuff to be ironed out besides enjoying the long waited for good weather.

Cheers,
Martin

mhaze

I'm finding it really unstable and buggy.  It has great potential but so far not for me.  I just hope the final version isn't as buggy and we don't get charged for a stable version.

Tangled-Universe

I suppose you mean that we won't be charged for a stable version. I hope so not.

Anyway, I'm not feeling nervous at all about this.
I spent $395 on this beta and if it doesn't work for me I can sell it for at least the same price, since everybody now has to pay either $795 now or $995 later.
It hasn't been a bad investment if you consider money, that I'm sure of.
I hope I won't need to do that though and that obj geometry and texture export issues will be fixed in the final release.

FrankB

What bothers me a lot is that you do not fully own the creations made with the software.
That single point is enough for me to not buy.

Cheers
Frank

rcallicotte

Frank, who told you that?  It's not true.

Quote from: FrankB on July 09, 2013, 08:05:11 AM
What bothers me a lot is that you do not fully own the creations made with the software.
That single point is enough for me to not buy.

Cheers
Frank
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

mhaze

Here's an example of tree roots hugging terrain from Speedtree Architect.

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: rcallicotte on July 09, 2013, 08:23:22 AM
Frank, who told you that?  It's not true.

Quote from: FrankB on July 09, 2013, 08:05:11 AM
What bothers me a lot is that you do not fully own the creations made with the software.
That single point is enough for me to not buy.

Cheers
Frank

It depends on how you look at it.

If you own something fully then that means that you can sell it through your own means and keep the revenues to yourself.
Both are not the case with TPF.

FrankB

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on July 09, 2013, 10:01:16 AM
Quote from: rcallicotte on July 09, 2013, 08:23:22 AM
Frank, who told you that?  It's not true.

Quote from: FrankB on July 09, 2013, 08:05:11 AM
What bothers me a lot is that you do not fully own the creations made with the software.
That single point is enough for me to not buy.

Cheers
Frank

It depends on how you look at it.

If you own something fully then that means that you can sell it through your own means and keep the revenues to yourself.
Both are not the case with TPF.

that is what I meant, thanks!

Bluestorm

@ Badger

Well, I have my exams at university coming up and - just as Martin said - the weather is too good right now to sit at home in front of a screen ;) But I will find more time in the coming weeks to get in-depth with some things.

For the mean time, I almost finished the chamomile. The great thing is that you can "extract" certain parameters from your node network and build a custom interface at the top-most level that can help to control several aspects of a plant easily. I think I mentioned this concept in the other plant thread in a discussion with Martin. If you use the plant in Vue, this custom interface will be "included" with the species and can be accessed by double-clicking on it which is very cool. And even if you want to create plants for other applications, it is really easy to achieve new variations with these self-made controls.

For the chamomile, I built a custom interface with the following options:

- adjust plant health with a slider (from healthy blossoms to withered blossoms)
- adjust the blossom's closeness (from fully open to fully closed)
- adjust the distribution of open, closed and withered blossoms in general
- add seeds to the pistil for close ups (as a standard I set the parameter to 0 so that you can add seeds to individual "hero" plants without overloading a population of flowers with millions of invisible seeds)
- adjust the seed type (whole seeds, "hollow" seeds, seeds already eaten by insects)
- adjust the resolution for each seed type individually

Thus, the plant is both suitable for populations and for close ups, all while being fully user adjustable. :) I did a macro shot with the new pistil detail, see the attachement. It was rendered in Vue xStream with DoF. Some color correction, the vignette and some slight chromatic aberration in PS.

AND: I did not experience a single crash while working on this plant (about 20 hours so far).

I really love TPF so far, but I discovered that your exported Vue plant species also have DRM on them (no idea about exporting as an object, though). Somebody else cannot open a species created in TPF unless he/she bought/acquired the species through C3D which is a real shame. I wanted to give away the chamomile for free, sigh.

I posted in the official e-on TPF forum about this and I hope to receive an answer:

Quote

I finished a plant yesterday that I wanted to give away for free. My understanding of the EULA was that

1. you weren't allowed to SELL species outside of C3D and

2. that you weren't able to exchange the editable scene files with other people, except for the producer version.

However, it appears that also the exported TPF-species have DRM on them and are locked to the creator's licence, at least nobody else was able to load my created species into his or her copy of Vue. This really bothers me, because it means that giving away freebies is no longer possible, unless you want to become a "broker" at C3D just for giving something away for free.

I don't like the selling restriction to C3D in particular, but at least I understand the economic reasons behind it, even though I don't appreciate it. But freebies do not hurt anyone, neither e-on nor the creator. They are the best advertising campaign for TPF that you can imagine - people see what is possible and get excited for the software. Also, it is highly debatable that the files that YOU created yourself in the software that YOU bought from YOUR money have DRM added to them without YOU having any influence on this.

I highly advise e-on to rethink the position regarding DRM on TPF species. It is enough to state in the EULA that selling species outside of C3D was illegal. Nobody would take the risk of openly making money in a way that was clearly prohibited (read: in another store than C3D). You don't need to impose a "locked-to-licence-DRM" on top of that or you could give the creator at least a choice when exporting the species.

Freebies are a word-of-mouth-multiplicator for a software and it really hinders the spreading of the programme in the long run.

I'd love to get an official reply to this. Thanks :)




TheBadger

Ok, Now Im completely muddled! What are the final export options supposed to be?????!!!!!
I was under the impression at the beginning of this that we would have full .obj, and even FBX? If the e-on native file format is this much trouble, Im really worried about formats that actually matter.
Without these two things the software is useless. And with them E-on restrictions are pointless! Pointless because all anyone who wants to share plants made with TPF would have to do, is import the plant into a modeler and alter it. Then share that.
e-on would spend all its time in litigation and never win.

Blue, Please tell us the response you get to your question. If they give you one.

Nice render though.

@Mhaze
Nice one!
It has been eaten.

TheBadger

It has been eaten.

Tangled-Universe

Hi Daniel (Bluestorm),

What a most interesting read about your Chamomile!

I would love to see it in action in TPF.

"Publishing" parameters, that's what you're refering to isn't it?

For the ones who wonder what it's about, it allows you to create a kind of macro where you can control a significant amount of your plants properties through a simplified interface with a couple of to be adjusted parameters. Right, Daniel?

The DRM is really annoying.
I wonder if you could sell it for $0.01? ;)
What's the bottom price allowed?

Walli

I did that some years ago, with the "sunflower" generator in Xfrog4 (you can build your own interface in Cinema4D to control certain properties) and poeple liked that. It´s always nice if you can "extract" the most important parameters to simplify creation of variations and the like. So TPF basically took the approach that e-on used on meta-nodes? Good move.

Nice flower by the way!