Brigade 3.0

Started by TheBadger, January 21, 2015, 06:35:43 AM

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TheBadger

It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Yeah, I heard about Brigade a little while ago too. An interesting project by, I think, basically one guy. But no update on it (on his blog) for more than a year now. That video post is a year old, and the actual demo older than that I think. All links to Brigade stuff, e.g. in the video descriptions, seem to be dead or have no info for over a year. *shrug*

- Oshyan

TheBadger

Well that sucks! Just heard about it for the first time. Hope he is not dead or in prison.  :o No idea why people who can do things that are needed just disappear. I guess we should just be glad he was not working on a cure for cancer or something then... He should sell it or open it up if he has lost interest.

I read about some other stuff in the works too. But people were saying it was a hoax or a BS claim. That likewise it had not been updated in a year or two... Maybe they stepped on an Apple patent and got sued into the dark age ;D hmmm, probably should not joke about stuff like that though, they are probably watching us now. :-\
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Well, after watching the industry for a couple decades now what I can tell you about stuff like this (based just on my personal experience and opinion) is that if something truly is revolutionary *and* feasible on current hardware, operating systems, etc, etc. *and* can be done affordably, etc. then... it will probably be made available, OR at least bought/used by some large company.

It's not that common for really great, practical technology to just disappear. The main situation that happens in is when a big company buys a smaller one for their tech, their staff, or whatever, and then either kills the product(s), or stops updating them, or that sort of thing. This is sort of what seems to have happened with Nik Software and Google, who bought them a couple years ago. Google was only interested in the Nik technology for use in Google's online photo systems, but many people relied on Nik's plugins for Lightroom, Photoshop, etc. which now have not seen updates for at least a year. Quite frustrating.

Anyway my point is that when we see demos of cool tech, it may well be really capable of that, but it may also be *only* capable of that, or a highly limited set of scenarios. There are almost always caveats, gotchas, stringent requirements, etc. So they've got a fully animated character working in a raytraced environment in realtime, cool! Did the model require any special preprocessing or conversion? Are there any limitations on geometry density, texture size or format, etc? How about scene size? What about interactivity (besides changing lighting)? How far from an actual, interactive game is this?

Also, it's very uncommon for one person or company to achieve something truly new without it being achieved in a similar, comparable, or otherwise competitive fashion by another company within, say, a year. That's just the way competition incentives work. It does happen of course that something may be really unique for a while, but it's certainly the exception rather than the rule.

Long story short: if you never get access to it, best to assume it wasn't as good as you thought/hoped it was anyway. ;)

- Oshyan

TheBadger

#4
All valid and goodly said points, Oshyan.

But lets hope anyway that it takes vue and the others 10 years to make procedural erosion. Its not un-fun to have a nice advantage ;D ANd of course I Went with TG over others, so it validates my own judgment too when you guys win  ;)

Just to get into some of the points you made in a more immediate way.
It has been eaten.

pokoy

I think Brigade is in some way associated with OTOY, makers of the Octane GPU renderer. So there might be some development, it's just not visible to the public.

Oshyan

I'm fairly sure Brigade was actually created by someone who *left* OTOY.

- Oshyan

pokoy

I see, I thought it was sort of acquired after its first development steps.

pokoy

Some news on the realtime rendering from OTOY, exciting to see what'S possible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbGm66DCWok

And the presentation from GDC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHKmqWwEGxQ

And an article about realtime rendering from other companies:

http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/nvidia-gpu-tech-conference-2015-day-1-report/

I wonder how many similar specialized in-house engines there are already being used by studios, visualization companies etc.

TheBadger

#9
I have just been gorging on info on these things the last week. Its really amazing.

Your links are great, I watched the entire lecture. AWESOME. Octane is free!!! Real time rendering, procedural unlimited detail and volumetric clouds. Photo real?! Looks like it.

The GPU is how rendering will be done. Period. 2 of his GPUs vs. 100,000 farm... 2 min!

One thing that I am still not clear about, is workstation GPUs VS game GPUs. I think this division is, or will soon be, broken? I never understood why you could not have 2 in 1. But it looks like that they will be one in the same now?

Another thing, The titan X is $999.000. Not nearly as much as I thought by looking at what it did. So based on what it can do, can this now be considered a workstation GPU? I mean, I have seen GPUs recently that are $4thousand by them selves, and it did not look like they could do what T-X can do. SO this part of things is confusing... Things are definitely in flux right now, things are changing!
Its great!

Its also funny, The RIFT has a pretty crappy screen rez. I have been playing with it a lot, and FPS are not even the big problem for me even on my older mac. The screen rez is too low. I have been looking at TG renders in the DK2 through a so called VR player. I have been looking at a bunch of renders from the forum so that they appear to be like 50 feet big! But the screen rez just does not do it justice... A little off topic I guess, but related in the big picture... Pun intended.

Its amazing how completely everyone is supporting VR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRdSxZtUpFk
[attach=1]
In the cloud unlimited. Schools will have this, find one that will give you access even if you only pay for one class ;D
It has been eaten.

pokoy

The main difference between highend vs. consumer cards was mainly a better support for the design market (specialized drivers) some years ago and higher data transfer rates. Now that consumer cards are equally fast or even faster their main selling point is more RAM on the high end cards and that they're better suited for continuous 24/7 GPU calculation (think supercomputers, data centers).

I'd like to see all of the tech to take off but we still need a more standardized 3d description that covers all we can think of: geometry and all kind of data channels (UVs, velocity, normals, there'S so much more), point clouds and volumes, animation (real time deformations, physics), materials (how many times do we need to reinvent the wheel?), lighting and calculation techniques (raytracing, pathtracing and hybrids) and finally the split between the GPU and CPU worlds. Right now, and since ages, everyone does their own thing. Data interoperability has finally got a lot better but as long as there is no standard, every one will be doing their niche thing and we will still have to rely on solution X for one thing, Y for another. There's probably no way to avoid this with the way the market works but it's not the best thing for the end user.

About screen res - funny you mention it. After watching these videos I thought  "OK, this looks nice. Now let's wait a year until there's a new specification and they'll need to quadruple the resolution and double the frame rate."
Also, these are tech demos. You see that the shaders are *very* basic, no animation, lighting is more ore less simple and there some 2D post prod effects applied. The only thing that really stands out is path tracing in real time, that's really something to look forward to.