Detail in Deep Shadows (again)

[cyphyr]

For animation you have to cut corners. I think you have still the "perfect still image" mentality Richard  Wink

Yes I think this is very true. Try not to fall in to the trap but still do. The billboard trick "might" work, its worth a try but I suspect that it would produce the results I'm trying to get away from, ie, the flat bill board look.

I think the main issue here is workflow. I was trying to overcome the rendering issues I knew I was going to face before they actually arose. The deep shadows and long volumetric rays were certain to cause problems as was the extremely high population count. I wanted to know it was actually feasible before I properly started the project. However since all the issues are so view dependent I may not have actually learnt that much that's particularly relevant in this process.

For example if I simply accept that areas in deep shadow will have very much less detail in them I could get away with using billboards in those places. This could potentially save a huge amount of render overhead. Also once the city elements are incorporated the populations will reduce considerably. I don't think using only one model is viable in this case, a lot of its going to be fairly close to the camera.

Doing this as a camera projection/2.5d/matte painting ... Well that would be a huge learning curve. Possible I'm sure, and if I was ILM or Weta I'm sure the way I'd go. (I'd have a decent comp artist on hand for a start ) Its a subject I'd really like to learn about though.

In fact I think the more you can cheat the smarter you are in this field! Wouldn't you guys agree?

Absolutely.

Ok, not giving up yet then It will be a slow project though, lot on at the moment.

Cheers

Richard

[Kadri]

Ok, not giving up yet then
...

Way to go Richard 

Curious when we can see this already !

[TheBadger]

...So far i know full scene export and rendering is not possible.
You have to do it manually with some fiddling
And getting the lightning done like in TG2 is a manual task because all renderers are different....it is not one button push. You have to know the other app...

This makes me sad  I would like the extra freedom, preferably in a nice neat, easy to use package. Lux render is a stand alone, I thought that mental ray was to. I wish some programers out there would develop these things. It could only help to grow the user base for TG2.

Ok, not giving up yet then
...

Way to go Richard 

Curious when we can see this already !

+1

[TheBadger]

...Doing this as a camera projection/2.5d/matte painting ... Well that would be a huge learning curve. Possible I'm sure, and if I was ILM or Weta I'm sure the way I'd go. (I'd have a decent comp artist on hand for a start ) Its a subject I'd really like to learn about though...

Hi again cyphyr

If you use after effect or have access, I highly recommend "The Digital Matte Painting Handbook" by David B. Mattingly : http://www.amazon.com/The-Digital-Matte-Painting-Handbook/dp/0470922427
It covers 2.5d in depth. And comes with several comprehensive projects (all files and parts). A guy like you could get through it all in a week or two. And I'm sure you would be able to do the things you want as a result. + with http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/ your all set!
I would love to see the things you did as a result!

just sharing, sorry for hijacking 

[Oshyan]

The shortest and clearest answer is no, you cannot use another renderer to render TG2 scenes. The 3DS Max plugin only imports/exports a limited set of data (terrain, basic sun position, camera animation). It misses the majority of what makes TG unique, namely procedural texturing, atmosphere model, and volumetric clouds. Also keep in mind that even if you could use a 3rd party renderer, there's nothing to say it would be faster or better than TG *at doing these kinds of scenes*. There's a reason there are dedicated products like TG, if the other products could do the same level of detail and quality with a lower render time, TG wouldn't really need to exist.

- Oshyan

[TheBadger]

The shortest and clearest answer is no, you cannot use another renderer to render TG2 scenes. The 3DS Max plugin only imports/exports a limited set of data (terrain, basic sun position, camera animation). It misses the majority of what makes TG unique, namely procedural texturing, atmosphere model, and volumetric clouds. Also keep in mind that even if you could use a 3rd party renderer, there's nothing to say it would be faster or better than TG *at doing these kinds of scenes*. There's a reason there are dedicated products like TG, if the other products could do the same level of detail and quality with a lower render time, TG wouldn't really need to exist.

- Oshyan

Ok, that sounds reasonable. Mostly I just want everything I do in TG to easily transfer to any other program I use or will use for any reason I may ever have. 

[JimB]

Richard, if you're looking for more detail in your veg, add some reflectivity to your foliage just like in the real world. It can make a big difference.

[cyphyr]

Hi Jim,
Yes reflectivity is a key to getting good detail. Do you mean specular reflectivity or , err real reflectivity (with or without rtr) or both?
I  try to start my vegetation scenes with translucency set to 0.5 and the spec set to about 0.2 and tweak from there.
Cheers
Richard

[JimB]

Richard, I'd experiment by making all of your foliage diffuse black, and a black layer with zero displacement on top of all surface shaders. That could speed up your render, and you can comp it on top if you're not averse to post work. As the foliage probably already has specularity, I'd say don't add any more. You might not even need GI switched on for a reflection pass if it's just about adding a little extra into the darks. That said, it might add nothing at all