Mudbox displacement maps in T2

[j meyer]

dandelO - it's not necessarily required to use a plan y mapped planar object,this is just
               the best way if you want to apply it on a planet in TG,because that can be
               considered a flat surface.Theoretically it should be possible with other basic
               shapes,too.I'm still testing.
               I don't know if it'd be possible at all to create a VD map from normals.
               But it is possible to convert the VD map to colour via red,green blue to
               scalar and go from there.
               I hope I'll be able to do some tests with clouds in the next few days.
               The next thing for me is to try to get working on vertical or close to vertical
               surfaces.

               Btw I've found the other thread we were talking about in your thread
               and I'll post the link there.

[dandelO]

Thanks, J. I'll look forward to your further experiments.

[Dune]

Tonight I got a 'bright' idea and drew my own VDisp map in PS. No need for a modeler if you don't need it. Works like a charm. I'll post some result soon.

[dandelO]

Ahh! Good-good, man!

[j meyer]

Just saw it Ulco,cool!

Hey Martin,the first little test with clouds just made the clouds disappear.

[Tangled-Universe]

Just saw it Ulco,cool!

Hey Martin,the first little test with clouds just made the clouds disappear.

Clouds are volumetrics and are intrinsically different from surfaces on how they are evaluated (noise) and rendered.

For instance, you're probably trying to apply this mask in some kind of projection and are assuming you're dealing with vectors.
The only part were you do that kind of is when you warp a cloud's texture space with a warp shader.
The warping shader pushes the texture space in the directions of the vectors the displacement of this shader is generating.
All else happens in texture space in regard to clouds.

So without knowing your exact setup I think that your principle may work, but that you have to keep the type of texture space you're working in in the back of your mind.

[j meyer]

Indeed I've tried to use the set up I already had (for side z projection) on the clouds when
I needed a break form the somewhat frustrating tests.
And no I did not assume I was working with vectors as I usually don't think in vectors,scalars
and other mathematical terms.Sometimes I don't think at all apparently.
Thanks for the input,I'll try to translate that to my thinking.

[Tangled-Universe]

Well luckily I don't do that either as soon as issues arise I try to think through what I want and what I'm actually doing.

[Mahnmut]

Now that´s an interesting thread! opens up whole new worlds!
And Dune, what you said about PS intrigues me and I wish to learn more. Thats a program I can use. Can you just give me a hint how to start? At the moment I have not the faintest idea how to paint a vector displacement map. So the colour chanels represent shifts in different dimensions? Exr is the format I need? Anything else to know?
Thanks to all of you!

And before I forget it: All the best wishes to the Badger and his family!

[Dune]

I just explained to Martin (T-U) in Dutch, so I'll do it in English as well. Paint in the color channels indeed, 16 bit RGB tif. Blue for Y, the other 2 for the other sides, whichever you choose (green=X and red=Z, or vice versa). Think where you want your cave, keeping in mind that it displaces to one side. On top of the lightest blue (white) is the top, so you don't want a cave there, paint it at the blackest edge. If you pant in the third channel on top or half on top of the green channel, you get a hook in the cave, which is what my example was about. If you draw a softer gray slightly higher than the cave (where the blue is lighter), it'll form a softer cave, and thus will produce a 'brow' above the cave. Lots to experiment with.
Then convert to 32bit and save. 16bit RGB won't open in TG, and 32bit can't be painted in in PS., hence the workaround. Set size appropriately in TG image map shader and check data is linear of course, like Jochen and/or paq mentioned. No need for an EXR. I couldn't even save an EXR I worked in as EXR.

[Mahnmut]

Thanks a lot!
I think I understood the Principle, I just wouldn´t have known how to do it .
( and to be honest, I didnt think about splitting the chanels, that would have been some colour magic to do!
Cheers,
Jan

[Mahnmut]

Hey, that also means I can use any good old bumpmap as bluechanel and paint in sideways displacements!
Dune, this get´s better and better. I really have to force myself to go out now, because its a marvelous evening outside.
CU,
J

[TheBadger]

I think this provides so many solutions to so many problems. We can use T2 to make the planets just as before, but use this method for very specific deformations not easily possible by seed or node tree, such as arches and bridges.
Fantasy art in T2 will benefit greatly!

T-U! You should return to your experiments with those giant spire formations found in China. Do you know the ones I mean? It seams to me that you need only paint the basic structure, and inlets. Then T2 can displace it and color it nice and pretty?

*...Oh thanks Mahnmut. Could happen any second now.

[Oshyan]

Great to see this long and detailed discussion about new workflows. There are some tremendously promising results here!

This is my brief summary of how to get best results from this stuff in TG, for now:

1: This technique is by far most promising for sculpting terrains and displacement from the planet object or one or the other displaceable primitives. This is because all the problems of raytracing objects, incorrect shadows, etc. are avoided (see below points 2 and 3). You get the best quality results this way, and the most difficult to achieve in TG, vs. point 2 below where you can just use a high poly imported object. So this is where I hope to see most people using this as a new approach to augment their modeling needs. If you have explicit terrain shape needs you can sculpt your base in e.g. Mudbox or Zbrush, bring it in as a vector displacement map, then add procedural detail in TG for further realism. This would be an ideal technique to achieve something like this, for example:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,16134.msg157391.html#msg157391

2: If you want a high quality object with absolutely realistic shadows (including self-shadowing), then if possible "bake" the displacement into geometry in your modeling/sculpting app, export that as OBJ, and load it into TG as a high-poly, complex object. Avoid using displacement maps to provide significant structure detail as A: you won't be able to use RTO, and B: you won't get accurate cast shadows.

3: If you are OK with some inaccuracy in shadows, you can use displacement maps on imported objects, but do so only with fine/small details, make the majority of your shape changes in actual geometry, and keep the displacement map to a "detail map". You can either use RTO (displacement gets turned into bump mapping) or not, in this case, the results should be similar as the displacement map is now just being used for fine/small-scale detail, although of course real displacement is always preferable. Overall displacement on objects should be avoided if possible; see my first point above.

- Oshyan

[j meyer]

For the sake of completeness:
You can paint in 8-bit,too.It's coarser of course,but it works.You can even paint with the
appropriate colors directly (separate layers) and experiment with different methods of combining
layers,like multiply and so on.
I would choose green for height (y) though,'cause that matches with other things in TG,and
red for x and blue for z.
I find it harder to get to the desired shapes as it is with sculpting,but it's still a great method.
And probably easier for arches and the like.

Edit: I use PSE and that doesn't support channels or more than 8-bit.