Mudbox displacement maps in T2

[paq]

Hi Oshyan,

If you have a chance to jump into the posted thread, you're more than welcome
While indeed vector displacement seems to open lots of door, I'm wondering if you have any idea how to resolve the micro detail projection problem
I'm facing.

[Dune]

@Jochen: I tried some combinations in TG, like adding, multiplying, subtracting some of the color channels to/from each other before building the vector. Really nice to experiment with. Now, what I like to do is get this working procedurally. Theoretically and after just a few minutes experimentation, I'm positive it should work....

And thinking more about it, what does 'build vector' actually do? Most things I do in TG are intuitive, not based on any knowledge  , so that makes me wonder. Is there a big difference between the vector displacement from the color channels and build vector and say 'redirect' or normal 'displace',either with or without using compute normal/terrain/XYZ? And what if you make the channels by using procedurals and a blue surface shader, adding these in clever combinations to build a vector. Of course you wouldn't need the color channels 'in between', but feed the different procedurals directly into the 'build vector... or not?

[j meyer]

......
And probably easier for arches and the like.
.....

That was another good example of me not thinking at all.
We are displacing the surface of a sphere and therefore it is not possible to get holes.
It's a closed surface after all.


Ulco - Yes,experimenting with that seems to be very promising to me,too.

         For the second part,that's beyond me,I'm afraid.I just test until it hurts
         as for stuff like this.
         What is a blue surface shader btw?


Generally - I got it working on close to verticals via camera projection.It's a bit
                inferior qualitywise,some more little black spots,but optimizable methinks.

                I failed getting it onto clouds,though.Tried several conversions,but the
                undercuts got lost everytime.So the results were nearly the same as with
                using depthgrabs.
                For now I've lost the nerve to go on with cloud tests.

               
               

[Dune]

A blue surface shader is just a surface shader with the color set to blue.

[jo]

Hi Ulco,

And thinking more about it, what does 'build vector' actually do?

AFAIK all of the blue nodes are documented and the Build Vector node certainly is:

http://www.planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Build_Vector

Of course you wouldn't need the color channels 'in between', but feed the different procedurals directly into the 'build vector... or not?

I don't see why not. I did a simple test using a Build vector with a Perlin noise node connected to its Y input and it worked fine. Instead of using a blue surface shader you would simply use a constant scalar with a value of 1.0 (the equivalent of full blue colour) connected to the Z input of the Build vector.

Regards,

Jo

[j meyer]

A blue surface shader is just a surface shader with the color set to blue.

  Doh,I thought it was a new blue node.

[Dune]

@Jochen: 
@Jo: thanks, I always forget about the documentation.

[TheBadger]

Hi.

I went a little over board on the model I promised. 

I ended up doing nearly exact replicas of greek and roman ruins in real world scale! Though they are not finished I can tell you that they will be near photo real right out of the box, so to speak.

Here is the "Temple Of Aphaia and Her Splendid Companion Athena". Its got a bit of work left to do on it:
[attach=1]

The hardest part was the column flutes. But they are all proper quads now and an exact match of the real temple.

The part thats most relevant to this thread is the polly count of the so called low polly version. As shown above it is nearly 1,000,000 unfinished/
I expect that the final sculpt and paint will be 20-30 million "p" and 1-3GB per object in TG2 (likely more).
So, not really practical for a lot of users here, I think.
Anyway, the point is that this wont be a perfect example model going by the OP post. But I would direct you to Oshyan's post on the last page in that regard. Also see my mushrooms in image sharing for good proof of what Oshyan said.

Then what I'll do is break off a chunk (one of the corners) and share that... Will look great in a TG2 prairie or garden scene.

Im modeling each of the temples and structures Im making according to the ruins. Once I have the ruins, I copy the file and continue for the un ruined version. Im making an entire city... One at a time. Then to mudbox for the ruins. For the un ruined version, I think image textures will suffice.

Ill tell you that making a column with a corinthian capital is tedious! If anyone knows of a tut for said capital for any modeling app, I would be glad to see it, I need to speed up my process, and anything would help.

P.S.
Ulco, Im working on your heard right now 

[Dune]

 

[TheBadger]

Hi guys.

I found this randomly. Made me happy. So I thought I would share it. Its a pretty clear and good explanation of lots of the stuff thats been talked about in this thread.

I think it will be helpful to a lot of people interested in whats going on here. I know it helped to put into words what I was understanding more intuitively. Also some instructions, so thats nice too.

Vector Displacement: Zbrush, Mudbox & Maya Workflow Explained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kb3uC1nY7Q

[efflux]

I've been trying to do this. I can create the vector displacment maps. They will apparently work in Terragen. The problem is the tools I have to do it. It seems Modo can do it but Modo is pretty terrible for scultping. You can't get enough detail and the sculpting tools are just bad. In 3D Coat I can create a massively detailed vector displacement map but the bit where you do the morph in ZBrush for example is eluding me. That part where you take the sculpt and re-apply it to an unaltered plane again. I actually don't get the point of 3D Coat having the vector displacement map capability or maybe I'm missing something.

[efflux]

What we want here is a hugely detailed map. Also, why are we seeing those nasty joins at the edges of the map?

[TheBadger]

There is massive interest in this topic, efflux (2,000 views and 98 replies in just a week or two).

Actually I was a little surprised that with so much interest there was not more experimenting and image posting of those experiments.
I am just guessing of course, but probably everyone just put it on the to do list, and had to focus on things they needed to get done first. Although Ulco managed to get a lot done on it. But he didn't post much detail about his steps. (I know your a busy guy Ulco ) And of course J and paq!

I really want to get back to this subject very much my self. But I need to finish some other stuff before I will have the time I need to devote to it.

But Efflux, I would love to see you give the kind of attention to this subject as you have a few others recently. One thing I would point out, is that Z-brush and Mud are really different. Maybe the soft you have is more like mud than Z? So maybe you should look at how mud works too?

I think people who use mud for this will have an easier time than Z. But I'm just guessing. Mud is easier in all respects I feel, though not as popular it seems.

Please go at it!

Ohh, Cant you make a vector in blender? Wouldn't that be another way to use your know how there, in Terragen, too?

[Tangled-Universe]

I have been following this topic with interest too plus I do have Mudbox, not Zbrush though, and am willing to give it a try some day.
However, I think I have to go through the entire thread again, because I'm not sure how it is done in Mudbox and how it needs to be set up in TG.

Perhaps Michael, if you feel up to it, I may ask you for a bit of help.

Cheers,
Martin

[Dune]

It would be most interesting to have a free app that could easily make some nice soft sculpt AND make a VDISP map out of it. It can be done in PS, but needs careful thinking.