Mudbox displacement maps in T2

Started by TheBadger, May 17, 2013, 10:25:30 AM

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Dune

And would you also be willing to share (or pm) the actual VDISP map, so I can study how that looks? I'm trying to recreate this in Photoshop, by painting in the three RGB layers.

This is yesterday's result.

chris_x422

Here's a link to a 4k version of the map.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7iMMmOUtdHbNkhqVUJIemJiMDA/edit?usp=sharing

The original is 8k, and is a 32 bit exr, so I'm not sure it will give you much guidance at that depth.

Hope it helps

Chris

mhaze

Chris was this sculpted in zbrush?  As I'm having trouble getting details out of zbrush  :(

mhaze

I'm using j meyer's method of extracting vector disp maps from ZBrush but I'm not getting any of the details modeled at higher subdiv levels. It looks like I'm only getting the base layer.  Is this the best I can expect or am I doing some thing wrong?

chris_x422

#139
Yeah, zbrush.

It can be a tricky process, as you are limited to how many subdivisions you can utilise (until the 64bit version finally arrives).
So you have to be careful with edge flow and avoid stretching wherever you can.

I tend to use it for broad areas and form rather than detail. though if you want to sculpt extra detail there is another workflow, although it can be a little tricky.
After the initial sculpt, and camera set up, you can export a projection camera and base mesh. (I tend to work on a flat plane in tg that matches the scale of the mesh I'm using in maya and Zbrush)
Then I take the mesh into zbrush and re-project a base plane onto the exported mesh (giving you a new base level to morph from that matches the broad strokes you created earlier), you can then subdivide and sculpt again, giving you another layer of detail. Make sure you apply the new displacement after a compute terrain node.

Are you storing the flat base as a morph target? you need to do this and switch back to it before exporting the vdisp map.
Also make sure you are reversing the y direction either in zbrush or tg.

Hope that helps a little.

Chris


chris_x422

One other quick tip.

Make sure the uv's on the flat plane you sculpt from are not sitting exactly at the uv borders, I always shrink them by a small fraction.
Zbrush throws lots of errors if there's no space at the uv border.

mhaze

Thanks for the tips I'll have to play some more.

TheBadger

QuoteMake sure the uv's on the flat plane you sculpt from are not sitting exactly at the uv borders, I always shrink them by a small fraction
This is true in a Mudbox workflow as well.

I am just going to say some bits about what I *think I know* in response to some bits above, and hopefully someone will correct me if Im wrong.

In the little experience I have in sculpting anything, I find the more perfect the quads on the low polly the better looking the high polly will be. That is if you have rectangles on your plane for some reason, you will have stretching. I am not sure how Z-brush works, but I don't understand how you are getting stretching? Just subdivide more? Because from a plane object all quads should be perfect? No matter how/where that plane object was created!

Perhaps the problem is not in the sculpting, but in the map? How much data can a vector disp map hold? And what data exactly that is?

Because I don't see from how mudbox works, why so much of whats being discussed is being discussed. If your working from a plane, than the quads on the plane should be perfect from the get go, and remain perfect to the highest sub level. But once the sculpt is saved as a displacement map, what does that even matter?.. if it looks good as a sculpt, the map should look just like the sculpt?.. Or is there some degradation ones its brought into Terragen? This last idea would be strange to me, because I always get in terragen, exactly what I saw in mudbox...So far anyway.

And on a side note,
Mudbox has a complete PTEX workflow. I am wondering what would happen if a Vector displacement map was generated from a PTEX sculpt and then used in Terragen? Based on what you guys are saying above one is lead to believe that Vector Displacement maps contain UV coordinates. OK, but what does that matter in TG?
Once its projected in Terragen, isn't it the planet's UVs that matter?


@chris_x422
Is the red sculpt a terragen render of the vector with no other nodes added?
It has been eaten.

TheBadger

^^Sorry if those are dumb questions, but from a beginners prospective, it seems important.

Just a little bit more now.

In Mudbox, you can make a Vector Displacement map of a sculpt, and then use that vector as a stamp brush. The power of this is, you can make a fine detail for a sculpt once and then repeat it easily. So for examples, scales on a dragons back, or horns on a lizards back, and so on.
I guess I don't see yet what the difference for Terragen is.

If I have some time today I will use one of those stamps in mudbox, and post a screen grab. Then I will also post the vector as I found it. Hopefully it will help to create some clarity.
It has been eaten.

chris_x422

Even when working with perfect quads there is a limit to how much you can subdivide (certainly in zbrush, due to the 32bit memory limitation)
So you are very often working against the natural flow of the edges, which can produce stretching.
Any stretching in the mesh is then always replicated when baking that out in uv space.

Ptex works on a per face basis and bares no resemblance to uv space, and that uv space has to used in order to work and re-project in terragen.
In terragen, I re-project in planar y, at the same scale and aspect ratio as my sculpt mesh and uvs.
The planets uv's are kind of irrelevant as it's a projection and can be placed anywhere.

The sculpt screen-shot is from zbrush, and as you can see there is stretching in places due to working at around 6 million polys.

TheBadger

QuoteEven when working with perfect quads there is a limit to how much you can subdivide (certainly in zbrush, due to the 32bit memory limitation... working at around 6 million polys

Ahhh ok. I am not limited in the same way. Not sure yet how much it will make a difference. But Im definitely more free to go over board with polygons. And I am certain that, that is whats allowing me to minimize certain issues, at least visually.

One last request to make of you Chris.
Would you mind terribly, also posting a render of the Vector in terragen, without any added nodes? So just the vector terrain before you started making all of the details and colors.

Thanks for the help Man! And thank you for deconstructing your image for us! It is most generous!
It has been eaten.

chris_x422

Here you go

Mudbox does have far better memory handling due to being 64bit, but I just prefer sculpting in Zbrush, I've used both quite a bit, and just love the tools and feel of the brushes in Zbrush.
Hopefully not too long to wait before v5 appears and finally goes 64bit.

TheBadger

Ok, so that answers my question! The image is what I would have expected to see. I was just confused by some of the talk about the finer points of the process up above is all.

I like Z too from what I have seen. I think its got a ton of nice features. I just prefer the easy UI of Mud. and its relationship with Maya.

Thanks again, Chris.

It has been eaten.

mhaze

Still can't get the same level of detail you are getting in your canyon pic. Guess I'll have to just keep playing.

j meyer

mhaze - what map size do you use?