Is this crazy or just about right?

[TheBadger]

Hey,

Modeling a wolf to eat deer with. And while looking for reference found this
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/wolf-fur-animations-2-3d-model/671912
$899?
Is that what stuff like this really goes for? How does pricing work for this sort of thing?

I was thinking pricing like that is more of a way to keep items off of the sharing sites, because anyone who is paying that much is probably not sharing.
Then I thought that if studios and production houses buy it, well than thats probably fair... Being that their getting labor and a finished product at a single price (no insurance taxes ect.)
So then I thought its probably a lower price than it should be.

I think is a pretty good model, a good looking rig, and nice animation/cycles. But not really fabulous or anything (in the context of nearly 1000 bucks).

So what is the info Im missing to understand pricing structure of 3D assets? How does one determine the value of something for a seller point of view. And for those of you who work in a production environment, what is the view of your offices on buying assets like the OP link? How do you guys determine value?

[cyphyr]

It's a good model and well rigged.
As you say, for a pro studio this could be a real  time saver. $899 is just south of £600 which is less that an average weeks wage for a mid level 3d Modeler. For the money they're getting not just a model but a texture, a dynamic fur rig and and a couple of run/walk cycles. Each of which could easily take up to a week. Potentially in house that wolf could have used up 3 or 4 peoples time for a week so we're now up to something closer to three grand!
If the model is what they want they have just saved themselves a ton of money.
How often this actually happens is another matter but is certainty dose happen.

[TheBadger]

Ok, thanks Richard.
Thats some good info!

On your last sentence about how often someone may sell something like that wolf. I would really be interested to here how many copies he sold. I would really like to know what the market for something like that is. But I guess if he is selling in his spair time, he only needs to sell a copuple to make it worth it.

I imagine that making things everyone, or many people would likely need is the best way to go. For example, plants. But that wolf is obviously way more complex than a tree. Though it can be used multiple time in a wolf pack. So more than just one use.
I also saw exact scale models of aircraft carriers too. I suppose that would be useful to a large number of others. Anything with a navy.

I wonder if modeling people would be a good way to go. Super high detail. So groups of tourists, solders, kids, and so on. I cant tell you how often I wished I had a few models of people in certain poses to put in a T2 render. But photo real people are hard to come by, even if you got the cash or time. I think when Im done with this current list of "to dos". Im going to focus everything on learning to model people... cant hurt.

[Dune]

The problem is always; high price, low number of sales... low price, higher number of sales. There's a turning point somewhere in between. You can get rich if you make something fairly cheap that a lot of people want, like in music cd's of popular bands. And if you have fun doing it, even better.

[Tangled-Universe]

Well I don't know about 3-4 people spending a week together on such a wolf.
Actually I think a well experienced 3D artist can make this model in a couple of days, 3 max.

Just consider the many modeling & texturing tutorials from Gnomon, for example, where they do similar complex stuff in about 12 hours.
That's even low paced for sake of clarity and such, but imagine how fast these experienced guys work.

But say one employee needs a week for it then you have this pre-rigged pre-everything wolf and then it's very likely it needs to be customised.
In the end buying this model might be too expensive.

I'm not sure though, I could be miles off with my estimations.

[cyphyr]

Remember the guys that you see modelling a critter on the gnomon videos have practised doing that particular model especially for the video.  Also you see jobs advertised specifically for texture artists, riggers, lighting artists and the like; the implication being that studios will pay a premium for an expert in a particular field. This may be changing nowadays. Studios want high proficiency in a wide range of applications with the added bonus of a particular high value skill. Maybe I have exaggerated a little but I still doubt many people could create that wolf model to final production quality in 5 days.
All that said I doubt he sells that many, but then he don't need to. There was only one review on the site so maybe that model has only been sold a couple of times (not every buyer will bother to write a review). However he has a collection of some 250 models ranging in price from $19 to $3999 all of a similar high quality so I imagine he can make a comfortable income from the whole lot combined. Maybe not enough to live on but a damn site more that just beer money!

Badger, there's always Poser! (they must have shares in a hanky factory!) Don't know why heir models are always so recognisable, the only ones I have ever seen that looked decent were heavily edited and photoshoped but I guess they could be useful for distance work ..... Maybe the reason it's recognisable is that it's used so much by amateurs that don't know how to refine a model, set it up with a natural pose that we see and recognise the "default" poser files so easily.

[Walli]

The problem is always; high price, low number of sales... low price, higher number of sales. There's a turning point somewhere in between.

this does not apply to 3d objects in general though. Keep in mind that some stuff is simply very special and there are simply not that many people needing such an object.

If you have to sell hundreds of copies to make your money back, then this probably only works with a few items that really everybody needs. Also keep in mind, Turbosquid takes 60%, Paypal some % and then of course all other expenses and taxes. So there´s not that much left from 800$.

I think in my own shop, also on Cornucopia and NWDA, objects have been priced to be affordable. Especially single items, that otherwise are really expensive compared to bundles ("others" sometimes sold single objects for 40+bucks, a collection of 20 or more of those items for about 150. ), are affordable and not overpriced.
But on most selling plattforms I can be happy if I earn the money for the time that I needed to put the models online. I am not talking about the time to model, texture and convert, I am really just talking about getting the stuff into the store. To be honest, I am considering to drawback from several of those plattforms.
Even if I dislike Turbsosquid for several reasons - it´s almost no effort to get your objects online there,  if you have that stuff already - I do so, because I model for myself, I model fo Silva3D - then you can earn some extra bucks. Not much, but at least you don´t lose money.

[TheBadger]

Walli, I dont know as much as I would like. But my feeling is that your prices are very low to compare to what else I have seen.  Most other sites I have seen for plants I don't even bother with. Too mush uncertainty or too high a price. The simple fact is, and I really believe this is obvious, is you sell your stuff under value. Thanks for that by the way.
Also, you have one license system, and its for commercial use. Thanks for that big time!

However, I do wish you would sell more on your site than just plants. Ok, I realize botany does not include spaceships or whatever. But lord knows I could use me some good spacesuit figures!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/Aa_Heinlein_spacesuit.gif

[Walli]

well, as Dune mentioned, lower prices means you can sell more. Similar to what happens on the app market. I guess a few years ago, most would have said that this is not possible to do. Look at Itunes and similar, it worked perfectly.
But I am simply not sure anymore, if this really applies to the 3d market, as you need a certain momentum when going the lower pricing route.

[TheBadger]

  Does that snake mean you are expanding your content. Or just having some fun?

[Dune]

I know a lot of your income is taken by vendors and taxes. I used to exhibit my paintings in galleries, but if they take 35-60%, the tax man takes another 20% as VAT and finally the income tax of say 35%, you end up with very little.
I made an analogy with music; a cheap Beatle (just to name one) album will give the creators (and vendors and tax men) a lot more income than a VERY GOOD underground band's cd, just because a lot of people want it (cheaply). 

[Walli]

oh, the snake was for fun mostly, but Silva3D never has been strictly plants only. The deco section always contained some elements.

Probably at some pont I will try if people are interested in complete scenes, instead of simple objects. Also it might be that I will do other stuff. No idea what I will do ;-)

[FrankB]

...The simple fact is, and I really believe this is obvious, is you sell your stuff under value. ...

I have to agree here. There is another dimension that you have to take into account when finding the best price as a vendor: and that is quality.
If your objects are significantly higher quality than other available options on the market, you can price higher and still find a lot of customers.
This is the case with your models. Walli, most of your objects are top notch. I still smile every time I use the HQ pine tree bundle, like in the last render I posted in the TG3 images section.

Cheers
Frank

[TheBadger]

Hey Frank...
Thats like 6 times in a week that we have agreed on things. I take this to be a sign that we are at the end of the world! Because 6 is the first number in 666. Therfore we are doomed!

Still, end of the world or not, I am just trying to be honest. And I really hope that people don't start raising their prices around here. Iv managed to work out a little balance that allows me to be creative and also eat. Which is nice. But on this honesty thing, if walli raised his prices by just a dollar or two, I wouldn't complain. At least I wouldn't post my complaint

I dont know how much you guys sell. But if 2 dollars means an extra 200 over all. That might be worth thinking about. 200 dollars can still buy a lot. Although, not as much as even just 15 years ago

[Walli]

my intention always has been to make my objects affordable to as many peole as possible. Of course I am still out of range for some people and thats the reason why I also give away free models.
And I never liked it, that bundles are relative cheap (per model less then a dollar in many cases and sometimes even cheaper) - but for many hobby user and sometimes also freelancers still to expensive, because they can´t pay 200$ for a complete collection - on the other hand single objects or species really expensive. In some cases 10times more compared to bundle items.
And because of that surcharge again to expensive for many hobby users and smaller freelancers.

I also had some ideas when it came to more expensive models, I think I could raise the bar a lot. But I don´t know if I will do it, for several reasons.