Modo 701 ("end to end"?)

Started by TheBadger, April 04, 2014, 08:36:31 am

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TheBadger

April 04, 2014, 08:36:31 am Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 08:50:02 am by TheBadger
Hi,

Well I have been reading up as much as I have been able to find direct statements on modo 701.
Was looking for more info though and hoping some from around here who use modo (especially on the job) could tell me more about it.

And hey Greg at DD; the interwebernet says DD uses Modo in production. Can you comment on it? I'll listen to anything you want to say, but down below are some general questions I have.


First things first.
It looks like upgrades are paid. But what is the service plan? For pre release 701 was a free upgrade at old prices for users. But the final release raised prices. What will it cost to go from 701 up to the next version when they make one? Could not locate that from my search. I tried the modo page but I did not see the update policy though it must be there somewhere?

Modo701 is now "end to end" The full Monty I guess. GOOD! From what I read its all there, but too new for lots of examples of projects done in Modo in the same way one could use Maya. I'm really in need of some user feedback from someone who knows:

1) Have you rigged an animated in modo (characters)? How do find it? Iv read its all there but not that easy to get on with.

2) I have read that rendering can be buggy. And that this can be a real problem for animation. Is that true?

3) On animation again, how do you find doing faces and such?

4) Particles are good but not a straight forward process "like in maya"?

5) everything everywhere says nothing beats Modo for modeling. Agree or disagree?

6) say anything you like

I have to say, I like modo and luxology. They look like their looking to the future rather than trying to hold on to norms. And I like that MODO as a full package is still so new that it will likely not grow faster than I can learn it, if I start soon.

I had some difficulty finding examples of photo real animation from it. Anyone here know of some examples? I generally think of the human face (or some animals) as the best way to judge what software will allow for. That is, (all users being equal) if you can get a super real human face and animation out of the software, then its just a question of cost and method. Have any of you seen a photo real MODO human?

Modo is affordable for a long term investment for someone like me, who knows I will have a long term interest. But while 1500 beats the hell out of Autodesk prices, that still ain't cheap. I'm prepared to commit, but I could use a bit of guidance
It has been eaten.

rcallicotte

April 04, 2014, 06:22:49 pm #1 Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 06:25:04 pm by rcallicotte
Have you already bought Modo?

My answers below are in bold.

Quote from: TheBadger on April 04, 2014, 08:36:31 am


It looks like upgrades are paid. But what is the service plan?
No service plan. Just per version upgrade. Next one, for example, is 801.

What will it cost to go from 701 up to the next version when they make one?
No one is certain what The Foundry might do.


1) Have you rigged andanimated in modo (characters)? How do find it?
No. Well, a little. But, the new ACS Kit has helped tremendously. Modo really lacks what even a package like Lightwave presently has.


2) I have read that rendering can be buggy. And that this can be a real problem for animation. Is that true?
Rendering is not buggy. It is intricate. You can usually render pretty well at defaults, but there is a sort of process of constant tweaking to get it "perfect". This is for just about everyone on The Foundry's site, experts and others like me.


3) On animation again, how do you find doing faces and such?
Faces are always difficult, but the morphs and assistance from others in the forum and even the ACS Kit make it easier. Not a final solution.


4) Particles are good but not a straight forward process "like in maya"?
Not hardly. Just beginning. Looks promising...or so people are hoping, since Nuke and Mari are so awesome.


5) everything everywhere says nothing beats Modo for modeling. Agree or disagree?
Modeling has some very good points. The interface is friendly and usable and configurable. The new MeshFusion has changed everything. If you haven't seen it in action, please look into this to see its beauty.



I have to say, I like modo and luxology. They look like their looking to the future rather than trying to hold on to norms. And I like that MODO as a full package is still so new that it will likely not grow faster than I can learn it, if I start soon.

Nothing is ready for complete realistic, especially at the level of Modo. Modo is still relatively new in the 3D modeling space. It's useful and has even a long time evangelist of Lightwave (William Vaughan) fully committing to Modo with some very good tutorials and insights. He's in love with MeshFusion.  Did I already mention how awesome MeshFusion is?  :-*  Modo's render is really one of the best in the industry and I believe it will be even better in the future.


So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

TheBadger

Thank you much.

And yes I know that they have their own forum, but I wanted to hear from people I have some experience with first. I am sure I will get more in depth answers from the MODO site. But I already trust you guys. You all usually get me on the right path. And the user experience in this forum should never be discounted. Besides, Im a timid mouse  ;) I need to take baby steps when talking about 1500 bucks  ;D

Probably I like Maya more than I let on, but at 3500, plus plugins, plus bugs... you know.

No I have not bought it yet. But Im getting pretty close to pay some people some money time, :-\ Of course I always hear DandelO in the back of my mind saying Carrara for cost and ease of use. But I tend to guess that Modo would develop faster and more in a way that I need. But I just guess.

Im pretty convinced that Modo will be a good bet especially in the long run. TG has, it has developed pretty nicely I think. I guess more than anything I wanted to make sure there was not anyone around here who would have a reason to scream NO STOP DONT DO IT!
MODO IS TERRIBLE, BECAUSE...
It has been eaten.

Kadri

I still think that the best answer is in the link below Michael.
Especially if you think about that Maya is one of the best regarded software around.
Not that this bothers me at all as a Lightwave user :D

http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/trymodo/

TheBadger

Hi kadri, http://vimeo.com/87854599  :o :o :o Well, Im completely sold on this mesh fusion stuff!  :o
Maya seems like an antique by comparison.

If I could just be sure about humanoids and animation I would be totally sold on MODO. Oh, and rendering too. But like I said, I am willing to give modo extra slack because they are pushing forward. Much like planetside, they seem really committed to the future. And that buys a lot of patience from me, because I know they will get where they said they were going.

I will try that download Kadi. But I don't have much faith Ill learn what I need, to be sure, in only 15 days. But I can at least try.
My fear is that I really can't afford to be wrong. Im happy to pay for software, I just need to make the right choice. Thats why Im so back and forth in all of these treads, I just can't afford to be wrong again.

By the way, where is Tangled Universe and Oshyan?! They always have detailed and informative posts on all these topics. But I haven't seen a post from Martin in forever, and Oshyan is in and out (where you guys at?)

@rcallicotte
Hey, I remember you brought up mesh fusion before in another thread. Thanks for getting the thing in my head. I really need to sit for a long time with this stuff. But since I saw it a while ago, Im really feeling better about it now. (See link above) Its really impressive!
It has been eaten.

Kadri

For me it is not always which software is the best.
Equally important is if i like the Gui,workflow and generally the feel of the software if that makes any sense.
That is very subjective of course.
So i mostly try to stay away from such threads and mostly (especially on other forums)
these kind of threads doesn't end much in a positive way.

As i said many times before Zbrush for example is really a great software.
But i don't like it.
That link was for these side mostly.
Because you already own one of the big software already.

Regarding this or that feature you can not find anyone that does have all or the best features etc.
I would lurk in every forum and find especially the threads
where everybody complains about the software they use
and say that "the competitors have this or that and why not us".
Every software does have those kind of threads :)
But in the end i wouldn't buy anything that i haven't tried at all
only because that everybody says that is the best program around.
I used the free version of Terragen for 2 or 3 years before i bought it for example.

TheBadger

You are absolutely right Kadri.
Im just ready to go on my projects now. And I want to make them on softwares I own rights too. I don't want to take another year before I start producing. Its closing in on decision time for me. But I thank you for your sobriety. I get a little frantic with this stuff.

I realize Im not a studio, and that I will not have the resources of a studio. So everything will take me much longer, be much harder, and Im going to have to face some difficult problem solving. I just want to finish some things I started with as little pain as I can  ;D
It has been eaten.

gregtee

There's quite a few modelers at DD that use Modo.  Our development guy uses it almost exclusively. 
Supervisor, Computer Graphics
D I G I T A L  D O M A I N

TheBadger

Do you know if anyone at your place has tried to use it to animate on a formal project, or even when just experimenting, Greg? Or do you just stick to the more traditional animation workflows? Again, especially interested in if I can get by with modo for complex character rigging and animating. I know already that Modo is rather new to that game, but if you know that DD has had some joy, It would be cool to hear about it.

But thanks for responding Greg. Im just trying to get as sure as I can is all before spending a fist full.
It has been eaten.

rcallicotte

April 06, 2014, 10:38:56 am #9 Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 10:40:43 am by rcallicotte
This was made by an expert using Modo and Lightwave - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doteMqP6eSc

MeshFusion is a game changer. But, it also brings up something I like about both Modo and Lightwave - innovation and willingness to do new things that people really want without bloat.

One thing to think about - what do you want to do? What do you want to learn to do? Lightwave is better at some things (like animation and Bullet) than Modo, which is better at ease of modeling as well as (dare I say it again? - MeshFusion). Of course, Lightwave is solid and fun to use. Blender is awesome, too, don't forget. With people like Jonathan Williamson and others so willing to teach (CG Cookie) and who always seem to be trying something cool (like Andrew Price, etc.) in Blender, it's worth some time to see what it's like at the newest 2.7 version.

Of course, then there's Houdini, which has a really low entry cost and which seems to be an all around good package. I have looked at Houdini quite a few times, but I can only get so much under my belt. If I was starting fresh, I would probably find as much objective information as I could about Houdini. This is especially true, if you have any plans to do major VFx work. Otherwise, Blender, Modo and Lightwave are all good entry points.

As for stability, Modo has improved in the last few years by a lot.

Cinema4D is pretty nice, too, but it might be too much to pay for all of the special packaging, etc.


Quote from: TheBadger on April 04, 2014, 11:46:35 pm
@rcallicotte
Hey, I remember you brought up mesh fusion before in another thread. Thanks for getting the thing in my head. I really need to sit for a long time with this stuff. But since I saw it a while ago, Im really feeling better about it now. (See link above) Its really impressive!
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

gregtee

We pretty much use Modo just for modeling and it's renderer for concept art.  The modelers love it, and our concept guy uses it for modeling and some rendering though he also uses Vray in Maya too. 

We don't do any animation with the package.  It's been a while since I've used it but as I recall animation wasn't the package's strong suit.  It seemed to have a nice renderer and it's modeling capabilities were very strong.  We use Vray and Maya almost exclusively for the majority of our workflows. 
Supervisor, Computer Graphics
D I G I T A L  D O M A I N

TheBadger

Thanks Greg.

Thanks rcallicotte.

Actually I have been looking and looking, and animation in modo looks ok. ITs just young I think. but it has what I need. I think it will develop over time and in the end be a superior animator. If they continue to develop the newer features to the level of their modeling... :)
Looks like that is what they plan to do too.

I found this article that you may find interesting. They mention DD in here too, Greg. http://www.awn.com/vfxworld/review-can-modo-701-make-its-mark-animation-and-vfx
From that I found this animation. All done using MODO http://www.themegaplush.com
It has been eaten.

Kadri

Quote from: TheBadger on April 06, 2014, 06:56:01 pm
... I think it will develop over time and in the end be a superior animator. If they continue to develop the newer features to the level of their modeling... :)
Looks like that is what they plan to do too.
...


OK this will sound a little donnish(!) Michael but buying a software for what it will be or can be is always a gamble.
Especially if you think about the marketing ramble they do to bring new users or hold the old ones etc.


TheBadger

You are right. But it nice to have some future too.

I went to the MODO forums to ask basically the same stuff I have asked here. While I was looking around in their forums I found the user Image and animation section. OF course the images all looked really awesome. But the question is about animation. And there too things looked really promising. And I even managed to find a human animation of "Ben Kngsley" by this artist here : http://www.tkio.net/Welcome.html
you can see a still of it in the gallery. Though I don't have a link for the animations. They are hosted on the forums and not links from youtube (which is a strange thing).

So I feel like MODO can do everything I'm interested in. But now I have to figure out if it is something *I* can do on MODO. As we all know, some people just get things naturally, and the rest of us have to work our arses off. How hard Modo will make me work is the question.

Check out the galleries and animation section there Kadri. I value your opinion and voice on many issues and would like to hear how you think MODO compares to lightwave which is another option for me in terms of cost.
It has been eaten.

Kadri

April 06, 2014, 11:40:06 pm #14 Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 11:46:01 pm by Kadri
Quote from: TheBadger on April 06, 2014, 11:01:27 pm
...
I value your opinion and voice on many issues and would like to hear how you think
MODO compares to lightwave which is another option for me in terms of cost.


That is a hard question.
I stay away from saying anything directly about this mostly.
Lightwave was in a crisis for some years because of the things that
happened when the original programmers departed and begun to work on Modo.
Since 2-3 years Lightwave took a positive direction ones more.
But it still does have some rough sides to be polished.
And what happens to it is probably depending on the 12 and 13 versions (it is now at 11.61) .
With some plugins like LWCad (http://www.wtools3d.com/) ,
Rhiggid (http://www.rebelhill.net/html/rhiggit.html) for example it is still very nice and better in some aspects.
So hard to say anything because it depends on who you ask and what you want to do.
For character animation actually Maya should be your best choice probably .
But that is not my area of interest.
For modeling Modo or Lightwave-especially with some plugins-aren't much so different.
But with LWcad Lightwave looks much better.
But as a more general all in one software Lightwave is still probably a little better then Modo.
Modo does have one interface.Lightwave is still 2 interfaces.
One for modeling the other for animating etc.
This could-should be changing in the near future.
If you think about using your software for work especially in the movie industry Maya
would be the first choice then Modo then Lightwave or others maybe.
Lightwave is more used in the TV industry so much i know.

Would be nice to hear what others think too of course.