Suni vs Shea in Syria

Started by PabloMack, May 07, 2014, 07:56:21 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

archonforest

Quote from: Seth on May 21, 2014, 04:17:14 am
The problem there is that they have oil, and that USA wants it. So they do their best to bring chaos in those countries, come with an army, and take over everything they can. That has nothing to do with religion.


EXACTLY!
Laser-precisely diagnose ;)
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

TheBadger

May 22, 2014, 06:53:03 pm #31 Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 10:06:26 pm by TheBadger
*nevermind  :)
It has been eaten.

PabloMack

May 22, 2014, 10:47:22 pm #32 Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 10:52:17 pm by PabloMack
Quote from: TheBadger on May 22, 2014, 06:53:03 pm*nevermind  :)


Hmm...where did it go? What you wrote I think was pretty much right on. The Suni vs. Shea split happened long before oil was discovered on the Arabian Peninsula. They have been at each other's throats for centuries. The oil surely influences who gets gun money but its certainly not the cause of the deep-rooted conflict. Syria is pretty far down the list of oil producing nations.

Seth

Quote from: PabloMack on May 22, 2014, 10:47:22 pm
Syria is pretty far down the list of oil producing nations.


Syria is the only significant crude oil producing country in the Eastern Mediterranean region, plus it has a strategic location for regional security and energy route.
And don't forget they decided to sign a deal with Russia that writes off 80% of their debt.
And they are alawite, you know...
The problems in Syria has nothing to do with religion but, again, with USA wanting to control this area and bringing chaos there.

archonforest

IMHO the current problem is not the Suni vs. Shea split....but what Seth says. Otherwise I am sure the split was a source of conflict long time ago but hard to believe that this is the main problem over there right now....anycow I have no proof so... :)
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

PabloMack

May 23, 2014, 08:48:17 am #35 Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:18:39 am by PabloMack
So how can you explain all of these reports of Sheites executing Sunis in alley ways and vice versa? All this money pumped in from the Arabs on one side and Iran actually sending in troops and money to support Assad. The Russians are also supporting Assad in a big way. I know the American government seems to be supporting the Suni side (I wish they wouldn't) but hasn't sent in any actual troops like was implied. It is well known that lots of foreign moslems have come into the country to fight on one side or the other. I don't understand how, in your mind, the USA is able to control the minds of these muslim insurgents to go fight the opposing "infidels" who believe in the wrong form of Islam. Perhaps its just a technique used by the Muslim controlled governments to motivate (by brain-washing) their soldiers who are fighting for their respective sides. I think the Syrian conflict may be liken to the Northern Ireland conflict where each side used their brand of religion as a rallying point (Catholics vs. Protestants). The Northern Ireland conflict was all about those who called themselves Irish wanting the British kicked out of there. There is no doubt that the Sunis want religious control of the region. No amount of the USA wanting their oil can make them go kill each other for control of the country. I think you guys are a bit off in your understanding of the conflict. I would like to have a better understanding myself.

Over 160 thousand have died so far in the civil war and it puzzles me how you two can think the whole thing is caused by nothing but the USA wanting oil. Can you please give me details on how this works? If you can't explain then don't try. General mud slinging isn't going to support your argument. I always thought that Americans were so naïve but I now know how many Europeans don't have a very good understanding of foreign affairs; average Americans because of their general lack of interest (and sometimes alarming ignorance) and Europeans to feed their favorite prejudices fueled by those old colonial rivalries. I know, that is MY prejudice.

After researching a little more I see that Syria is the most significant oil producer in the Mediteranean just because the Mediterranean is not a significant oil producing region. The way you put it is akin to saying Argentina is the most significant corn producer of all of the nations of Antarctica. Syria is on the edge of the mother lode which is centered on the north side of the Arabian Peninsula. This map says it all:

http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/0000000674-fossfu005-004.gif

There was a time when I could have taken an extension of my Israel/Egypt trip to Syria. I should have done it then. I don't think now is a good time.

archonforest

Quote from: PabloMack on May 23, 2014, 08:48:17 am
There was a time when I could have taken an extension of my Israel/Egypt trip to Syria. I should have done it then. I don't think now is a good time.

To answer this first. Israel is still okay to be. I have been there 5-6 times. But not only for a week. Longest was 6 months in a row. I found the place very friendly and beautiful. Nothing like what u see in the fabricated news in the TV. I witnessed that Hebrew and Arabic people living together in many places without problems. You should go there. It is safe.

So what u see on the TV and hear on the radio read on the net as NEWS are most of them not real and fabricated and very far from reality. Therefore the conflict in Syria most probably have a different source than it is stated. If you have a conflict and when u have the source then it can be handled by the two group. In an old conflict like this the source is something else and somebody else who is not part of any side but actively running some black propaganda on both. It can be the US for the oil for example. Why they killing each other? 'Coz they are stupid. I went around the planet visited many countries and the majority of the people are rejecting violence. But u always get those airheads who can do things like this and when it is started they can pull in others who would never start this. Like when u have a bunch of people in the same place and someone(s) start to panic it will go through the masses and people will die for nothing.
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

Seth


Quote from: PabloMack on May 23, 2014, 08:48:17 am

So how can you explain all of these reports of Sheites executing Sunis in alley ways and vice versa?


Did you notice that before we, occidentals, begin to mess up with Syria, there was no kiling ?
We decided that Assad was the bad guy and brought armed men and weapons there. Now we complain about the dead people ? laughable.
It is like Iraq and their so-called WMD... We killed 800 000 people there, mostly kids. For what ??? Oil, freakin' oil.
Considering what you wrote, you know nothing about Islam. period.
And you seem to know not much about Ireland neither. It is a war against occupation. Since the begining it was. Even when it was about Pictes and Scotts...

Quote from: PabloMack on May 23, 2014, 08:48:17 amI think you guys are a bit off in your understanding of the conflict


I think you are far off understanding Syrian conflict, to say the least.

Yeah, man. USA are the real problem. They wanna rule the world, have cotrol on energy and information. All that thanks to lies (WMD in Iraq, official version of 911...), torture (like in Guantanamo), wars, etc...
Sorry to sound harsh, but you sound very naive to me. It looks like you believe what you hear on TV. and That's a shame to my eyes.

TheBadger

May 23, 2014, 07:19:13 pm #38 Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 07:43:19 pm by TheBadger
QuoteYeah, man. USA are the real problem. They wanna rule the world
. Well France had its turn before. So how can you judge? We are better at it anyway.  :P  ;)  ;D Oh, and thanks for Louisiana by the way, its quite a nice place  :D
It has been eaten.

Seth

Quote from: TheBadger on May 23, 2014, 07:19:13 pm
QuoteYeah, man. USA are the real problem. They wanna rule the world
. Well France had its turn before. So how can you judge? We are better at it anyway.  :P  ;)  ;D Oh, and thanks for Louisiana by the way, its quite a nice place  :D


hehehe yeah "we" had our time. But don't get me wrong on that : we were piece of colonialist shits back then. And now, it's your turn to smell like manure ;)
Even if I don't think that you're better at it than frenchies back then. Your way is more violent, and it looks a lot more clumsy and discourteous.
Hey, you're a nation for a small amount of time, you were Brits' taxes cows before that. That is why you act like rough new free men :P

BTW, I don't merge US people and US politics. American people are not the problem, just their imperialist government.

TheBadger

 ;D lol. Thanks for being clear.  :P

QuoteAnd now, it's your turn to smell like manure

I live in farm country, the smell does not bother me anymore.

Quote...you were Brits' taxes cows before...

Some say we still are  ;) I don't know much about banking my self though.

It has been eaten.

archonforest

May 24, 2014, 07:55:41 am #41 Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 07:57:29 am by archonforest
Well said Seth. Actually I think the government in the US is a puppet one like in many places. I think the smell comes from above the level of governments. I read a book about this...a very good one...ohhh it's called Rule by Secrecy. And what is written there just makes sense...

Many people can say what is written there is just not possible...well this is the exact reason how they made it. Read that book.
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

PabloMack

Quote from: archonforest on May 23, 2014, 09:39:53 am
Israel is still okay to be...You should go there. It is safe.


I did and everything you wrote I agree with. The "news" propaganda on the TV isn't a very good representation of what's really going on over there. But I am not a typical American. I do travel abroad a lot but it is usually to 3rd world countries.


PabloMack

May 24, 2014, 07:29:05 pm #43 Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 07:39:47 pm by PabloMack
Quote from: Seth on May 23, 2014, 01:51:16 pmYeah, man. USA are the real problem. They wanna rule the world...


I know I don't have the best understanding of middle east issues. But I'm am sure that I know the motivations and feelings of Americans much better that you because I grew up here though I don't speak for all Americans. If you go back to 1940, the world had a remarkable number of dictators trying to take over the world (or their parts of it) all at the same time. It was WWI/II when Americans decided that ignoring the rest of the world would not make these problems go away. I personally think that the world regularly comes up with dictators like Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito/Tojo, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Moa Tse Dung, Ho Chi Minh... The list goes on and on. You might argue that the USA has been no better, but then you've never lived through Nazi Germany (have you?). Americans want to prevent another dictator from taking over so much of the world again and you can't do that by sitting on you hands. Of course the USA didn't do much about Idi Amin and other dictators of small-time countries (which have little or no oil). But the world has been a relatively peaceful place considering there is so much technological potential for killing people now than ever before. As you said, you've spent a lot of time in Israel and it is a much more peaceful place than the news would lead people to believe. It is not very fun to go to the dentist but the pain he causes is often regarded as worth avoiding much greater problems later on in life. I don't agree with all my government does. For example, the allies should never have turned Western New Guinea over to Indonesia. That was a huge mistake. But I personally believe if the USA had not been a self-appointed police over the past half century, we would have half a dozen powerful dictator-lead empires knocking at our doors at this moment if we were not already dead.

Quote from: archonforest on May 24, 2014, 07:55:41 am...Actually I think the government in the US is a puppet one like in many places. I think the smell comes from above the level of governments. I read a book about this...a very good one...ohhh it's called Rule by Secrecy. And what is written there just makes sense...


I have no argument against that. Where-ever the centers of power are, that's where evil men will collect.

Seth

What you don't seem to understand is that even if you grew up in the US, you are not the US government.
So to prevent dictatorship, it is legitimate to lie to the whole world, like with the WMD, and kill more than 800 000 civilians just in Iraq ?
Sorry to not agree with that very strange idea.
And I, like a lot of human on this earth, really don't want to live like the americans wants us to live. I don't care about the american way of life, money, or even bringing democracy to the countries that are not democratics.
At least some of the dictators you mentionned didn't hide behind humanism to commit their crimes.
And I would like to know... who the hell decided that the USA should be the police of the world, kill people with their wars and steal every drop of oil they can ?! That is beyond my understanding.

and when you say :
QuoteBut the world has been a relatively peaceful place considering there is so much technological potential for killing people now than ever be
I really, really hope you are joking !!!!