Suni vs Shea in Syria

Started by PabloMack, May 07, 2014, 07:56:21 pm

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PabloMack

May 24, 2014, 09:57:17 pm #45 Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 10:06:32 pm by PabloMack
Quote from: Seth on May 24, 2014, 08:21:25 pmSo to prevent dictatorship, it is legitimate to lie to the whole world, like with the WMD, and kill more than 800 000 civilians just in Iraq ?


I know you don't remember what all I said and want to blame me for things I didn't say. I think we should not have had the Iraq II war and I don't know what GWB was thinking. I don't claim that he knew that Iraq did not have nuclear WoMD but if he did he was lying. We know that Sadam did have chemical WoMD because he used them on the Iranians (so you need to qualify when you say WMD). We should not have had that war. But you have to admit that all of the hide and seek games Sadam was playing only made him look suspicious. Don't you remember when he ejected the multi-national inspectors from his country? Taking out Sadam was a stupid move and it handed control of Iraq over to the Sheites and now Iran has more power in the region.

Given we were there though (even though we should not have been) the difference between you and me is that I don't think that if an Iraqi was serious about wanting a peaceful nation he would have pulled out an AK47 or RPG and launched it against our occupying forces. But I think you are right that democracy is probably not for every nation and that dictators are what they would likely have in its absence. What bothers me so much is that Wikipedia reports "In a 2005 report,[86] using updated information, the IBC reported that 7,299 civilians are documented to have been killed, primarily by U.S. air and ground forces. " With you claiming that it was 800,000 (a hundred fold exaggeration) I think someone is seriously lying and the finger seems to be pointing to you. Can you say anything in you own defense?

And I do understand that the US government is different from the general American people.  But what do you think I can do about it? Does it make you feel better to have confirmation from me that I have little control over my country's government?

Quote from: Seth on May 24, 2014, 08:21:25 pmand when you say :
QuoteBut the world has been a relatively peaceful place considering there is so much technological potential for killing people now than ever be
I really, really hope you are joking !!!!


No I am serious. Have you had half your family executed in the streets during the past 10 years? Oh. Not even one? I stand by my statement. You must have a serious phobia or believe the news which you say is in such error. Listen to archonforest. He said it:

Quote from: archonforest on May 23, 2014, 09:39:53 amI found the place very friendly and beautiful. Nothing like what u see in the fabricated news in the TV.


Seth

May 25, 2014, 05:23:57 am #46 Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 06:32:53 am by Seth
Don't Call me a liar : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq

Since the first gulf war and the embargo, there was a lot of civilian victims...
We disagree. Even the first war was not legit. You went there for oil.

QuoteBut you have to admit that all of the hide and seek games Sadam was playing only made him look suspicious.

Again, with all the bullshit USA told their allies, you have to admit that only made them suspicious.

QuoteHave you had half your family executed in the streets during the past 10 years? Oh. Not even one?

You don't know me. Four members of my family were bombed by allies bombing AFTER the WWII in France, and one of my friend was killed during a terrorist attack in Paris, and 2 others killed in Afghanistan. That doesn't authorize me to take my gun and go in another country to kill them, by starving or gunshot, and steal thei oil.


USA should apply non-interventionist, and stop bringing their allies and ennemies into war.
We will always disagree, I know.

QuoteAnd I do understand that the US government is different from the general American people.  But what do you think I can do about it? Does it make you feel better to have confirmation from me that I have little control over my country's government?

First, you should stop covering their back and justifying their wars and thievery.
Then you should stop thinking you are a democracy.
Last, you should understand that your country's gvt is the major problem right now in term of peace.


Try to read how many wars are going on since the last 30 years and tell me again the world is peaceful

PabloMack

May 25, 2014, 08:15:08 am #47 Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 09:03:49 am by PabloMack
Quote from: Seth on May 25, 2014, 05:23:57 amTry to read how many wars are going on since the last 30 years and tell me again the world is peaceful


I judge how peaceful the world is on what I see myself in person. I have travelled to 31 countries all over the world and I have never witnessed a violent act on any of my visits. You and I both know how the media can magnify a billion times any isolated incidents anywhere in the world. I don't hear gunfire outside my house every night...really almost never and I think what I do hear are fire crackers on rare occasion. I think I can match your lost relatives and friends one-for-one and I think of it as "normal background noise". So I do think of you as being like an elderly granny who is afraid to go out at night in fear that vigilantes are out there roaming the streets. I live in a very Hispanic neighborhood and, even though the men have to puff their chests out and show how macho they are, the biggest danger around here is when we trim our grass along a long 400 ft. curb. Low-rider pickup trucks use the stop sign down at the end of our property as the starting point for racing each other in front of our house. We had to jump out of the street just two days ago to avoid getting run over. But that's about the extent of the violence I've seen in my neighborhood.

While I was working for Rohm & Haas the bombing of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie Scotland killed someone I personally knew from corporate engineering in Pennsylvania. There were several others from the Rohm & Haas office in Germany including the vice president and his family. Honestly, I can't seem to remember, though, knowing anyone who was killed in the middle east though I know or have talked with several veterans of those wars.

On my visit to Israel and Egypt in 1996 we stayed in a town called El Arish on the Mediterranean coast of the Sinai Peninsula. Our bus was held up by traffic when we got there because we had to wait for Yasser Arafat and his entourage to leave. We only stayed there one night and it was an experience to see shearwaters flying so close to the coast which we never see along the Texas coast.  Two weeks after we got back I heard on the radio that some Moslem terrorists had attacked that place and killed several Greek tourists. I'm glad we missed that.

Of course I had an uncle who died in the Battle of the Bulge. How did the Allies manage to bomb France after WWII was over? Can you send me an article link to that?

I came close to seeing a disaster in Vietnam last year. A woman was doing something with a propane or butane tank and it was ruptured. I heard a lot of screaming and the woman was engulfed in a cloud of flammable gas. If there had been an ignition source nearby she would have been ravaged in a ball of flames. But the cloud dissipated and no one got hurt. It made me appreciate the standards we have here in the USA for guaranteeing the integrity of fuel containers. And it may have saved one more life from becoming a statistic as being killed in a war action caused by an American because I happened to be standing near by.  ;)

I appreciate you Seth for keeping your language somewhat civil. I hope it means that Oshyan won't have to lock this thread. But I now wonder what I was thinking when I started it. I started it as a religious issue and I should have known that the direction it would lead is right back to participants' favorite phobias and perceptions of the world.

I see that LOCK TOPIC button down at the end of the page. Should I push it or not?

Something I like a lot more than Terrorism is Terragenism. I hope to be doing a lot more of that with you in the future... :D

AP

Also we have to remember that Governments start war, not people. Wars are a racket and propel the health of the state. I suggest anyone who is interested, watch some very informative videos from Larken Rose, Jeffrey Tucker, Josie The Outlaw, Ben Swann, Amanda Billyrock, Adam Kokesh, Ron Paul, Stefan Molyneux, Nigel Farage, & Peter Schiff. Some of them are Minarchists and the rest are full-blown Anarchists. Although I personally disagree with some of these folks on spiritual thoughts, I agree with the ideas of Voluntaryism. Mans laws are all inherently flawed. Universal Law, The Golden Rule, Natural Law, God's Law... what ever one want's to call it benefits everyone and can make a better world.

archonforest

Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

PabloMack