Suni vs Shea in Syria

Started by PabloMack, May 07, 2014, 07:56:21 pm

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PabloMack

If you ask me it seems that the "civil war" in Syria is really a struggle in the Moslem world for dominance between Persian and Arab style Islam. With Al Qaeda & Saudi Arabia supporting the "rebels" and Iran supporting Assad, it is a battle that would probably still be going on between Iraq and Iran had the US not interfered but now it has spread further West because Husain is "out of the way". I hope we stay out of this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFZhQ4u2Cbg

TheBadger

The "Middle East" is one big shit hole. Its hard to say which could more closely resemble hell on Earth, the Middle East, or most of Africa. Other than Turkey and Israel, what hope is there?.. And I would not want to live in those places either.
It has been eaten.

AP

May 07, 2014, 10:03:31 pm #2 Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 10:39:22 pm by ChrisC
Do not be surprised if there is interference.

N-drju

"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

archonforest

I am 100 percent sure that someone mixing the shit from the outside...as usual...
Until we have groups around who can profit from War we will have some around for sure.
Otherwise as far as I know there is nothing written in the real Coran that would say kill or dominate.
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Dune

Though religion has made the world into a more beautiful place on the whole, it's always these religious groups that fight eachother.

archonforest

Co'z those fighters are not following what is written in their holly book...they are just stupid ignorant assh....
I studied different Religions and all of them are based on friendliness toward each other. Whoever kills in the name of a God or Religious movement that person should be bbrrrrgrrhhgggppfff...I would probably put them on an Island far away from Mankind so they stop poison the rest of us.
Doing things "in the name of..." means zero responsibility for the action someone is doing.
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fleetwood

Quote from: archonforest on May 08, 2014, 03:37:52 am...I would probably put them on an Island far away from Mankind so they stop poison the rest of us.



Sometimes seems We are already on that Island.... the real Earth has been hidden from us except in dreams.

PabloMack

May 09, 2014, 09:13:26 pm #8 Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 09:16:42 pm by PabloMack
Quote from: archonforest on May 08, 2014, 03:15:14 am...as far as I know there is nothing written in the real Coran that would say kill or dominate...


You have not read the Quran. You should find this interesting.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

archonforest

I did not read the Coran as I was never interested in a translated/interpreted by someone version. I have a friend in Pakistan and she is Muslim. She read the book and she told me that there are no parts like that. That is the reason I said As Far As I Know...

Otherwise look here:
"Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression." [Quran 2:193]

or

"But if the enemy inclines towards peace, you (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah" [Quran 9:61].

So yes this book like the Bible can be controversial. Probably every person will understand them differently. I guess some dumb-ass could potentially misunderstand the above quote and do bad things anyways...
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TheBadger

May 11, 2014, 12:44:23 pm #10 Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 01:17:30 am by TheBadger
In no way shape or form can you equate the Bible with the Quran. To do so is (within the context of each book) a kind of act of violence against both religions.
It would be like a king putting a throne in the white house, or placing a fresh water fish in salt water. The two books are not equal, they are not of the same beginning or end. They do not teach the same understanding of reality.

As for me, in my opinion, its is always illogical and morally wrong to justify violence in the name of Christ (if you go by Christ). But it is not always wrong to do violence in the name of Allah (if you go by Muhammad). However, in Christianity there has been much violence in the past. But when you look closely at those times, you will see that much of that violence was politics disguised as faith. Especially within Catholicism, where the papacy is both a religious office and a political one (though it was not meant to be).

It is easy to make a fool of someone who cannot read. And most solders of any religion are illiterate. That is true of Christianity in the past, and of Islam now. But if you ask me if I think that the Muslims would be as violent (or tolerant of violence) today if all Muslims could read. I would answer yes... Regardles of how the quran is translated or interpreted. Because fundamentally, Islam calls for obedience, while in christianity it is more important to love than obey. It is not a simple distinction.


edited a point for accuracy.
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PabloMack

May 12, 2014, 08:57:03 am #11 Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 10:25:10 pm by PabloMack
Quote from: archonforest on May 11, 2014, 10:42:52 amShe read the book and she told me that there are no parts like that. That is the reason I said As Far As I Know...


I have a Penguin version of the Quran and it does say such things. I also have a Pakistani friend who I met in college. What I would do is to take one or more of those verses that say such things in the English translations and then ask my Muslim friend to translate those specific verses herself from the original Arabic. If she is did not read the original Arabic but Urdu (or other language) then she is also reading a translation and has no more basis for claiming what the Quran says than me reading an English verison. You will know that she was not being honest if she gives you some sort of him-haw "its not honorable to ask such a thing" evasive kind of reply. It is easy to make whole-sale denials but I wouldn't give them any wriggle room. Too often people (even good people) want to believe in something so much that they dance around a subject but never address anything in particular. That way they can tell an untruth and not feel like they are doing anything wrong by being vague.

PabloMack

May 12, 2014, 09:21:52 am #12 Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 10:37:28 pm by PabloMack
Quote from: TheBadger on May 11, 2014, 12:44:23 pmIn no way shape or form can you equate the Bible with the Quran.


I have to agree with you. The Bible is not a book but a collection of books written by different authors from different times. The ideas are corroborated in the way that law is corroborated in a government "by the  people and for the people" such as a democracy. It is in the same spirit as science where the evidence is given in any one written work by one person to be tried by others in an attempt to reach the truth. The Apostle Paul wrote "Work out your own faith". A Catholic wrote to me that it just means to discipline yourself to just accept what is told to you on faith. As a Methodist I think I can see through the old Roman strategy of trying to control the people by an attempt to claim a monopoly on religion. Fortunately, the Romans did not write the bible or they would not have put things in there like "Call no man who is on this Earth 'father' for you have one father who is in heaven" (Matthew 23:9)

On the other hand, the Quran was written by one man claiming that Gabriel gave him this information directly from God. The Moslem dictum is that you have no right to question it. There is no room for corroboration in this religion. There is a lot of moodiness in that one author as you read. He has mood swings from asking people to be kind to the poor to saying that those who leave Islam must be killed. There is no leaving the business of punishment up to God (they have no faith that He will do that) so they take it into their own hands.  One of the author's favorite tirades is to blast Christians for being poly-theists because of "the trinity". I'm personally not a Trinitarian for I believe that "The Father" and "The Holy Spirit" are one and the same in different roles. I believe that Jesus was a different person who claimed to be "one with God" in the same spirit as a man and woman are joined as one in marriage. But I don't discount the possibility that "the holy spirit" is also a subordinate being that subjugates himself under the "one true god". I am a monotheist as the Muslims and Jews are.

TheBadger

I would strongly disagree with most of what you just wrote. But isn't it nice that I can disagree with you without feeling the need to kill you for it.
It has been eaten.

PabloMack

Badger, can you be specific? (And thank you for not feeling the need to kill me)