Wetness final

Started by choronr, October 14, 2014, 11:40:02 AM

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choronr

This is a continuation of the thread: http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,18974.msg184913.html#msg184913 . A number of good suggestions were made the first time around; namely: add mud on the vehicle, add a darker shadow beneath the vehicle, add tracks behind the truck (thanks Dune),  and sink it's tires into the mud.

The darker shadow under the truck was produced by adding a second sun at 90 degrees elevation. I liked Dune's idea of raising the terrain in order to lower the truck's tires into the mud - this was easier than making changes to the components of the truck.

The odd angle of the truck and the two sets of tracks are the result of its skidding and sliding along the way barely missing the ditch. It was suggested to adjust the tracks; but, after messing around with this, I felt that it was better off to leave it alone as is.

Many thanks to Dune and j meyer for their help along the way.

archonforest

Well done! Great render, I like it a lot ;)
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

Marty


j meyer

Glad to see your progress on this one.
There are two things though,which are not to advantage
from my point of view.
First is the additional sun an absolute no-no,kills any realism.
Second there should be tracks behind the frontwheels,too,methinks.
The second might be neglectable.
Sorry for being picky,but it's such a nice pic.

choronr

Quote from: j meyer on October 14, 2014, 01:08:06 PM
Glad to see your progress on this one.
There are two things though,which are not to advantage
from my point of view.
First is the additional sun an absolute no-no,kills any realism.
Second there should be tracks behind the frontwheels,too,methinks.
The second might be neglectable.
Sorry for being picky,but it's such a nice pic.
Thanks Jochen. As for the second sun, for me, it was the only way to get a darker shadow under the truck. As for the tracks, all four tracks behind the truck are from the front and rear wheels - the vehicle is sliding down and around the curve with the rear end swinging out to the driver's left.

bigben

#5
Very nice

I've experimented using 2 suns for adding extra shade around trees in a similar way. I found using a very wide soft shadow (30-45°) looks a lot more believable.

fleetwood

Much improved - nice job.

Oshyan

This looks quite nice I think. The wet, slick, shiny skidmarks are particularly great (though indeed there needs to be one under the front tires too). I think the water in the ditch is maybe too transparent, either it should be a bit murky, or maybe just darken the surface below the waterline. But otherwise it's a beautiful scene.

I agree though that a 2nd sun is not a good solution and I'll explain why. Adding a 2nd light source *can never make shadows darker*. Think about it: you are adding *more* light. It only *appears* darker because the rest of the scene is lighter and there is a lighter 2nd shadow. So *by comparison* it's darker, but it's not actually a darker shadow than in your original image! It's like this classic illusion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checker_shadow_illusion

What I would suggest is making sure that GISD is enabled, then keep at the defaults (bounce and occlusion both at 1), but increase Radius (in pixels) to 50 or 100 and uncheck Falloff. That should darken the underside of the vehicle a fair amount (it will also darken other shadow areas of course). This is a quick way that does not impact render time results significantly.

However what you're really seeing with the underside of the vehicle being too light is the result of low GI accuracy, so for best results you'll want to increase GI Cache Detail and Sample Quality. What are they set at now? If they're not 4 or higher, try values of 4/4 (four for both) or 6/6. The higher you can go, the better that area under the vehicle will darken up. Still, GISD is going to be a much faster way to approximate it, even though it's less accurate without higher cache detail and sample quality. Some combination of the two may be best, e.g. GI at 4/4 with GISD at pixel radius 100 and no falloff.

- Oshyan

choronr

Hi Oshyan,

Thanks for your review, comments and suggestions.

Regarding the tracks under the front tires: You can hardly see under the front tires. Ulco had given me some tips on this; but frankly, I had worked on this image so long that I was kind of frustrated to go on with it any further. His information was solid and I should have followed it ...maybe soon again.  Yes, I thought I got the water more murky by adjusting the Volume 1 color making it darker. But, I guess it wasn't enough. I like your idea of darkening the surface below only so long as it doesn't affect the surfaces elsewhere. I'm glad you like the overall scene; thank you. 

Thanks for your comprehensive explanation regarding avoiding the use of a 2nd sun here. I've noted your suggested set up and will give it a try. Will be back to you later.

Bob

Oshyan

Glad to be of potential help Bob. Just to clarify, I don't like the second sun approach partly for ideological reasons - it frustrates me to have to do something unrealistic to get a good result - but I also understand that tricks *are* sometimes necessary to deal with functionality that Terragen doesn't have, etc. The reason I brought up alternatives here is that I do feel the additional sun is causing other problems in your image and bringing down the realism, so while it is potentially helping with one issue, I think it has a larger negative affect than positive. That's just my view of course. But hopefully with the methods I've outlined you can find a method that balances everything a bit better and achieves the results you want.

- Oshyan

choronr

Thank you again Oshyan. I've had a mind frazzling day and are putting off any TG work this evening; but, will be back at it tomorrow morning when my mind is fresh - and, will once again try to employ Ulco's suggestions regarding the tracks.

This forum is the best! 

Hannes

Great image, Bob! The muddy road looks absolutely convincing. Agree about the track of the front wheels but it seems that the car rotated a bit, so that these tracks aren't visible from this point of view (?).
And you should really give it a try using Oshyan's tipps. I'm sure using a second sun won't help here (or anywhere else...). GISD has so much potential. Looking forward to the next iteration.

choronr

Quote from: Hannes on October 15, 2014, 09:20:23 AM
Great image, Bob! The muddy road looks absolutely convincing. Agree about the track of the front wheels but it seems that the car rotated a bit, so that these tracks aren't visible from this point of view (?).
And you should really give it a try using Oshyan's tipps. I'm sure using a second sun won't help here (or anywhere else...). GISD has so much potential. Looking forward to the next iteration.
Thank you Hannes. I'll be testing the suggestions today. Hopefully we'll make it better.

Tangled-Universe

Very nice wet road mud road Bob :)

If you like to have shadows darker you can indeed play with GISD as suggested and explained before.

Before the new GISD we had to resort to different solutions and I still stick to those quite often.
For example, if you like darker shadows then you can reduce the "strength on surfaces" parameter in the "enviro light" node.
Like changing the GISD settings this will also affect all other shadow areas.

choronr

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on October 15, 2014, 11:43:35 AM
Very nice wet road mud road Bob :)

If you like to have shadows darker you can indeed play with GISD as suggested and explained before.

Before the new GISD we had to resort to different solutions and I still stick to those quite often.
For example, if you like darker shadows then you can reduce the "strength on surfaces" parameter in the "enviro light" node.
Like changing the GISD settings this will also affect all other shadow areas.
Thanks Martin, I was about to post a test of the results of the settings suggested by Oshyan. I will consider your suggestion before I go into another final render.