Increasing the size of several Fake stone packs

Started by Erwin0265, December 02, 2014, 07:46:09 pm

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Erwin0265

December 02, 2014, 07:46:09 pm Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 07:47:54 pm by Erwin0265
Hi all,
Sorry about the title; I couldn't come up with one that made any sense.
I have been playing around with a few of the Fake stone packs from NWDA (Fake Stones and Dust Pack/Fake Stone and Hero Rock Pack) and I am confronted with the same issue with both packs: how do you increase the overall size of the fake rocks?
Obviously, if there was only one fake stone layer, it would be easy, but I doubt that the respective creators of these packs had intended the user to go into each fake stone layer and adjust the size (the Fake Stone and Hero Rock Pack has eleven or so layers - it would be nuts to have to scale up/down the fake stone layers one by one.
I was thinking that using one of the function nodes at the end of the fake stone shader chain; perhaps multiply or power but all of the function nodes appear to need two inputs (rather than the single input from {for this issue} the fake stone shader network and the second input being a constant - such as 2, 3, 4.87, whatever constant was needed to increase/decrease the overall scale of the fake stones).

Below are a few test renders as well as  a Node network view (cropped).
So as not to give the wrong impression (or take credit where credit is not due... :o); the test render, "My" own fake stones - is actually the result of following a GeekAtPlay tutorial. Although OK for a first attempt, I wanted to have a play with some professional fake stone shader set ups to see how they would appear.....................
I disabled the water for the second test render due to all of the teeny-weeny fake stones being under water...............
OK, who farted?

yossam

You have a surface layer after the stones..............stones should be last in the chain.  :-\
:)

Erwin0265

Below is a crop of the node network of the demo scene included with the "Fake stone and hero rock pack".
They appear to have 3 surface layers after the fake stones...............

As this pack has been available from NWDA for quite some time, I'm gonna go with the creators and assume that they know something you and I do not................

Please don't take this the wrong way; I'm just saying it as I see it.
They have definitely got it working; however, they have no apparent means by which to increase the scale of the fake stones and that is where my initial question remains:
How can you increase the scale of the numerous fake stone shaders all together without having to edit each fake stone shader individually.?.................
OK, who farted?

Dune

December 03, 2014, 02:25:34 am #3 Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 02:27:29 am by Dune
I don't think you really can and should. They're (usually) based on world scale, so you might need to check the scale you're working on and the distance of the camera to the ground. For larger rocks just enlarge each rock and the corresponding PF displacement amplitudes, there aren't that many.
You might want to experiment with a displacement shader in the line and add a whitish PF or single light color to the function input. That will increase the size, but has its implications on the calculation of the XYZ for textures and such.

And it isn't neccessarily so that stones need to be on the end, just depends on how they are masked and how the rest is masked.

Erwin0265

I don't really understand how there can be such a large size difference between the fake stones in my shader as opposed to the fake stones in the pack.
In both scenes the camera is in the same spot so shouldn't the fake stones from the pack at least be comparable in size?
If I need to go into each fake stone shader; that's eleven shaders - each one is labelled clearly indicating their size - and I need to go into each shader and change all that??!
Why did I buy the pack then? I need to learn enough to know how to alter each shader, I may as well create the whole thing myself... But I can't - and that is why I buy these packs (and I imagine, so do most people); I want to create imagery before I know all the ins and outs of TG3...........

Perhaps my question should be, why are the fake stones in the purchased pack so much smaller than those in my fake stone shader?
I was following a GeekAtPlay tutorial and scale was only altered withing the bounds of the fake stone shader.............
I am still at a total loss as to how to tackle this issue.............
OK, who farted?

Dune

Maybe this is the problem you now face:
QuoteI want to create imagery before I know all the ins and outs of TG3...........


I's like driving a car and you have no idea where the clutch is, and what it does.

I don't know the pack intimately, but I guess they are sizes of sand to maybe a few of 50cm. The pack is good for those sizes and if you need larger stones you're bound to make them yourself.

Erwin0265

So do you have any idea as to what I could then be doing wrong?
I'd love to upload the relevant tgd's, but since one contains a clip file from the "Fake Stone and Hero Rock Pack", I'm thinking I'm not permitted to do so..........
OK, who farted?

Dune

Notice that the largest stones from the pack are only 15cm. How big are yours? Did you check smoothing in surface layer 02? That might help a bit. Add a card in between the stones and check them out against that 1m card. Or try what I said; add a displacement shader with some white color as input in the line, and a displacement of 0.1-1 or so to start, where you put the arrow. But that is not really the best way.

Erwin0265

QuoteOr try what I said; add a displacement shader with some white color as input in the line, and a displacement of 0.1-1 or so to start, where you put the arrow. But that is not really the best way.


What does this mean?

QuoteAdd a card in between the stones and check them out against that 1m card.


1m card?
OK, who farted?

Dune

I think you need to study the basics first, then you'd understand perfectly.

Erwin0265

I've been trying to learn Terragen for the past 3-4 years and have only now made a bit of progress thanks to the GeekAtPlay tutorials.
I have gone through the Exploring series three times but only retain what I use (despite reading and rereading the wiki, forums, anything else I can find that covers Terragen).
The problem with me is that I am on a lot of medication and my mind is not what it was...................
The problem with Terragen is that there still remains huge chunks of TBC throughout most of the wiki which then brings me (and many others) back to the forums............
Despite being called a wiki, it still comes down to mostly one man to "complete" and Oshyan can only do so much when his duties appear to cover tenfold that of maintaining just the wiki............... (which is why so much of the wiki is still referring to TG2 rather than TG3 and some entries have been labelled TBC since 2008).

However, you have given me a few venues of attack to my question and I thank you for that.
Failing that, I'll give up on that and just go onto the next tutorial..........................
OK, who farted?

Dune

Sorry to hear about your medication, and I know, TG is quite hard to fathom. Try this quick setup; if you enable the displacement shader you'll see the stones get bigger. Don't overdo it though, it may influence the finer texture.

Erwin0265

Hey, thanks for the tgd!
Don't let my medications concern you; I have been on strong medication since I was 20 (I'm now 52) - I suffer from Crohn's Disease and Fibromyalgia (the latter being due to a motorcycle accident back when I was...... yes, 20).
Anyway, back to something important; when I opened your file, I got a lot of warnings (see screencap below); before I play with the file I thought I'd find out whether any were of concern (ie. would effect my results)?
Thanks again - I do appreciate your time and effort in helping me (and hopefully, others trying to learn the same stuff).
OK, who farted?

Dune

Don't worry about the warnings; I'm on an alpha version of TG, but saved this on a older version, which might even be older than you use. Doesn't affect anything.

Erwin0265

OK, who farted?