Why are US periodist lying about my country?

Started by Ariel DK, October 27, 2019, 02:03:46 AM

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Ariel DK

So, the main question here should be: what is happening in Latin America?

I was thinking for a while about post this, and break up in some way with what is usually posted here. As the title say, it seems that this person called Trish Regan (i don't know who is she and i don't care), that call himself "periodist", is intentionally misinforming people about the actuality of my country. Please check this Link: https://www.facebook.com/RealTrishRegan/videos/364848341072124/?v=364848341072124

I don't want to turn this a political discussion too much, but as an Argentinian, if you see the video, i can assure you that the actual president of our country IS NOT socialist, is an self-proclaimed political-right liberalist: close and militarization of the frontiers (exept for corporations), negationist of the climatic change, religious, accused of corruption... Sounds familiar? in Argentina, as in Chile, Brazil and Ecuador, we are in a several biggest economical crisis, and what have all this countrys in common? political-right presidents and liberalist, where is the problem with that? The corporations, and the external financing entities like the IMF. this "presidents" are basically taking massive loans from the IMF without any reason, distributing him between just a few main local companies, and creating an enormous debt, imposible to paid.
So, why are the news media lying? because they are part of that few main local companies that get some benefit, as also of course, foreign companies. meanwhile millions of people are massively taking the streets in Chile and Ecuador against this kind of politics. Seriously, we are all suffering the consequences: i'm suffering this by myself (i lost my job, that's is why i don't gonna renew my maintenance contract for now, and i have more time to spend here around), but TODAY in Argentina, we have general elections, and fortunately, we can (and we will) use the democracy to make our voice heard.

This is history, and is happening right now, meanwhile the news media are lying...

Chile: https://www.contrareplica.mx/uploads/galerias/normal/0e8e9d249238e4eb4e2f2b1a33271163.jpg
Argentina: https://republica.gt/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/argentina-buenos-aires.jpg
Ecuador: https://images.pagina12.com.ar/styles/focal_3_2_960x640/public/media/articles/22785/ecuador03afp.jpg?itok=apqTTwu_
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?

Dune

I'm not into politics at all, but I do hope your country (countries) will remain stable and democratic, and that the ordinary people can live a decent life!

WAS

I don't think right-wing and liberal work together. Far left is liberal. Far right is conservative Republican. Middle is centrist (central government). Liberals dont like central government or "tighter" government. The Right likes a central government and wants tighter control.

Ariel DK

You're right Jordan, maybe I didn't express myself correctly here. when i said Liberalist i was referring exclusively to economic terms, not social.
The other term you're referring to, is "liberal". here in South America both words have different (unofficial) means: while "Liberalist" is more likely used in the economic and politic slang, "Liberal" is most used in a general way, and also refer to the social and individuals. both are part of the general concept of Liberalism.
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?

Ariel DK

Quote from: WAS on October 27, 2019, 12:46:06 PMI don't think right-wing and liberal work together. Far left is liberal. Far right is conservative Republican. Middle is centrist (central government). Liberals dont like central government or "tighter" government. The Right likes a central government and wants tighter control.

You're right Jordan, maybe I didn't express myself correctly here. when i said "Liberalist" i was referring exclusively to economic terms, not social.
The other term you're referring to, is "liberal". here in South America both words have different (unofficial) means: while "Liberalist" is more likely used in the economic and politic slang, "Liberal" is most used in a general way, and also refer to the social and individuals. both are part of the general concept of Liberalism.
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?

PabloMack

Quote from: Ariel DK on October 27, 2019, 02:03:46 AM>> i can assure you that the actual president of our country IS NOT socialist, is an self-proclaimed political-right liberalist: close and militarization of the frontiers...

Perhaps you can enlighten us. With the crowd waving flags with the image of Che Guevara, it certainly looks like the people are promoting
(or demanding) socialism and even communisim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara_in_popular_culture

You must understand that "socialist dictators" like Hugo Chavez and Nicolás Maduro use the socialist cause in order to gain control of the country.
The main weapon of communists is to lie to the population and convince them that they will be "given" everything. But it is a lie. The dictators are
in it for themselves. That's how a democracy loses control of its government. Then the dictator takes over and the whole country suffers.

When you say "political-right liberalist" an American (from the USA) will just be confused. "Liberal" means "Left" while "Conservative" means "Right".

Ariel DK

Quote from: PabloMack on October 27, 2019, 11:08:23 PM
Quote from: Ariel DK on October 27, 2019, 02:03:46 AM>> i can assure you that the actual president of our country IS NOT socialist, is an self-proclaimed political-right liberalist: close and militarization of the frontiers...

Perhaps you can enlighten us. With the crowd waving flags with the image of Che Guevara, it certainly looks like the people are promoting
(or demanding) socialism and even communisim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara_in_popular_culture

You must understand that "socialist dictators" like Hugo Chavez and Nicolás Maduro use the socialist cause in order to gain control of the country.
The main weapon of communists is to lie to the population and convince them that they will be "given" everything. But it is a lie. The dictators are
in it for themselves. That's how a democracy loses control of its government. Then the dictator takes over and the whole country suffers.

When you say "political-right liberalist" an American (from the USA) will just be confused. "Liberal" means "Left" while "Conservative" means "Right".
I'm totally agree with all of that, and i did not consider the differences that the word "liberal" could have in each different country.

And even knowing that i wrote this thread to denunce how periodism is lying, i gonna answer to that: YES, people is demand socialism back, at least, in terms of economic measures. you'll see: all the dictatorial governments in South America in the 70's and 80's, had something in common: they was supported basically by the right-wing politicians, how? because that wasn't only military dictatorships, but also civil (even with the Church complicity), commonly denominated "Civic-military dictatorship". Those dictatorships was much more bloody and scary compared with Chavez and Maduro. thousands of peoples was tortured, killed and missing, and many of them are still searched at present day by differents NGOs. knowing this, how did not expect that the people was waving flags of Che Guevara in the streets? even more so now that the ghosts of 90's crisis and right-wing politics have come back. believe or not, every time that Socialism has reach the power in a purely democratic way, it has proven to work through the Keynesian model. you can see this in Bolivia, one of the most poor countries in the region 10 years ago, is at today one of most economic growth and stability of all. and you can see it of course, in Argentina, where we had yesterday a pacific votation and celebrating 36 years of uninterrupted democracy. the winning candidate was Alberto Fernández (new president) and Cristina Kirchner by a difference of 9 points, both of course, socialist candidates, one of them is the same woman that industrialized and makes grow the country from 2007 to 2015...
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?

PabloMack

#7
The problem with socialism is that people get lazy (mentally and physically) and they put their hopes in the government doing everything for them. This is when they hand control over to the government and the dictator takes over. The few who are willing to work hard are taxed to death and the wealth created by their hard work is turned over to the masses who are along for a free ride. Before long, the few who are working see that their efforts are being drained away so they then ask themselves "Why am I killing myself for nothing?" Then the whole country turns into a Venezuela. The dictator may not be socialist but the system is because that is what people want to hear so the dictator keeps lying to them because the people want to believe that all the things they want and need comes from nobody working and that just can't happen. You need free enterprise and allow people to benefit from their own work. If you are happy being poor, then you will be fine modeling yourself after Bolivia because that is all you're going to get.

I would also like to say that dictators are not the only liars. Like you pointed out, the news media are frequent liars. Those who go into journalism (more often than not) do so because they want to "change the world". And when they find that people are more stubborn than they thought they were, they find that sneaking bias and untruths into their news stories is easier than controlling other peoples' thoughts (which is what they are usually trying to do).

And poor people are also often liars. Ask a bum on the street if he is lazy, he will tell you he is not. But then you will often find that he is unwilling to take a job because it is easier to accept something for free than to have to work for it. So he is lazy but also a liar. I once gave a wino $5 because he said he was hungry and wanted to buy some food. I gave it to him against my manager's advice. I followed him without his knowledge and he went straight to the liquor store. So you see, poor people can be liars too but socialists (and they can be liars too) say they are not to blame for that because they are poor. But they are wrong. A man told me that a bum asked him for money because he was hungry and wanted to buy some food. He said that he would give the bum a bushel of peas but he would have to shell them himself. The bum immediately turned the man down because he was really lying and wanted the money for something else like drugs. Or he was just lazy and wanted the work done for him all for free.

If you ask an evil man if he is evil, he will say no. He will tell you that it is everyone else that is evil and he is the only good one.

Ariel DK

#8
Hi Pablo
In my first post i said it very clearly: i don't want to turn this into a political discussion. i tried to keep the conversation in a objective tone, saying just VERIDICAL facts, and therefore, out of any refutability. i never gonna accept the theory that a poor person, is poor "just because he like it", that have no any sense for me! did you know how incredible hard is that life? i cant believe that when my whole life i have witnessed just the opposite: people that worked so hard to get their dreams realized, or at least, their child's dreams. the argument that people get lazy is so real as the information of Trish Regan, a lie that was disassembled in this 4 years of Right-wing politics with our (still) actual president, Mauricio Macri. See Here how our laboral force grow, while our unemploy index down from 2003 to 2015 after 12 years of socialism, and you can also see more real data as the poor index, and a large data compiled by external organism. please, click the link and see for yourself. if you don't noticed yet, i'm talking with facts and arguments, not with opinions.
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?

PabloMack

#9
I don't consider anything I've said to be political. It is more than just facts but facts alone don't explain how facts are related. You need reasoning and logic as well.

You misunderstand me. I can dig a hole and then fill it in all day. I am putting out a lot of physical effort but I get nothing done. I'm not being physically lazy. But I am being mentally lazy because I am not understanding that what I am doing is not working (in this example). Perhaps I use the wrong word. But there is such a thing as mental work and that concept is lost on many people.

Don't think that I am just signing people off by calling them lazy. I get lazy. Everyone gets lazy in one way or another. I have to discipline myself because laziness is a natural thing that all people can fall into. But laziness isn't just physical. It can be mental too. And it even goes beyond that. Another form of laziness is an unwillingness to get involved in government at the lowest levels (called grass roots). I admit that I have a lot of laziness in that area. Another form of laziness is demanding that the government provide jobs because one is not willing to do the work of starting a business.

There are evil rulers who put up road blocks to starting your own business. In North Korea, running your own business is illegal and that is just evil. When that happens, the ruling system just has to come down. If people want to demonstrate and demand that the government solve their problems for them, then that is their choice but it is a precarious road to take because they are putting their futures in the hands of someone else and we all know how that can turn out.

I think that almost everyone would be poor in this world if it weren't for machines. The human body is pretty feeble. An agrarian life (without machines) is physically hard and doesn't produce much more than a minimal existence. But many will say "My father just used a horse and plow and that is good enough for me." That is basically culture which people often chose over progress. Nobody can help them when pride is their stumbling block.

If I sound harsh and intolerant, then I have to say that I have the same things to say to my own countrymen. We have plenty of flaws in the USA. As human populations grow and world resources become more scarce, these problems will only get worse. If anyone has had more than 3 children to their name, then they can take the blame for the bulk of the growing world's problems. Ultimately, most of the world's problems come from that one thing. That's not political. That's just the truth.

PabloMack

#10
John Stossel explains why people who demand socialism end up with a lying dictator and a failed economy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZBq08unM1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwa9BloFLOE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_oeBBU3xv4

Ariel DK

#11
Well, first thing: i perfectly understand your point, and can be perfectly valid for many regions/countries in the world, of course lazy people always gonna try to find the "easiest way", what I am trying to explain to you is: you can't take that real fact and apply it to any other country in the region. Basically what you and the people in those video are doing, is taking the examples of countries where the socialism was imposed by force (like Venezuela), and not in a democratic way, and telling you "Yeah, this is what socialism basically is", and that's wrong: you can't take the Venezuelan example, and say that is (or can be), the situation of all the region, that's the reason why they aren't putting examples of others south american countries; and finally, to going in depth with theory vs practice: i tried to understand almost all the John Stossel's video, very interesting, but inaccurate, why? he is telling that the people can have the possibilities to resolve their problems without Government help, and again, thats can be true in countries with a huge economy like USA or UK, or even Spain, but this is not applicable (for eg) to countries with minor economies and 30% of their population historically below the poverty line, why isn't applicable? simple: you first need economic grow, how? offer and demand: how you expect that all 30% of that population spent money if they aren't winning a decent salary or are unemployed? in many countries of south america, if you are an indigent living in the street, you probably gonna die, sorry for the hard words, but is true. most of the people close to that situation try to get out fastly BEFORE to finish there, but they can't always do it, and finally, if as government you don't do anything and apply the "Stossel rule" (can we call her that?), the population gonna beggins to literally die in the streets, and the other 65% of the people will going for your head...
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?

PabloMack

#12
As we used the word "liberal" differently, we may not be using the word "socialism" the same way.

In the USA, pure "socialism" means that the government owns and runs all of the businesses. Private business is illegal or the burdens imposed by the government makes them impossible. And it is the way of government (even ours) for cronies to take key bureaucratic positions. They will appoint those who support their political agendas so making a company run well is of low priority. These people's expertise is politics and not the technologies that companies need to make their industries work. So when government is in charge of everything, businesses fail because those who are in charge don't know (and don't care) how to make their industries work right and so production suffers. They are first in line for food and other stuff you need to live on. Then the other people who depend on product don't get it and when that is food they starve. The same rules apply to all countries. All has to obey the laws of physics. The rules aren't different for the USA just because it is a bigger economy. 2+2=4 in my country and in yours. The problem with socialism is that the people who promote it think that 2+2=40 if you are in a bigger country. But in reality 20+20=40 and 2+2 still equals 4.

If you want your people to starve and you want civil war, then keep on thinking that socialism is going to be the answer to your problems. Just don't be surprised when dictatorship and oppression is what you get. You need to get rid of your dictator and get people competing for each other for market share. That is what your country needs. The government's main job is to make sure that people go by the rules and don't cheat (not to run the businesses).

The solution to your country's problem is to acquire a healthy distrust of the government and take charge of your own lives. Get businesses together, meet people, form consortia grow food and manufacture products. The people who know how to do these things are the key to your future because they produce what you need.

By the way, I visited Buenos Aries one time and my only memory is that I was caught up in a coordinated scam to steal my wallet. One person walked by and sprayed some nasty chemical on me. Two other people then walked by and claimed that a bird pooped on me. They pretended to be nice and offered to help clean me up (and clean me out while doing so). I knew something was wrong when my wallet hit the ground. I've been all around the world and Argentina was the only place where that happened to me. Maybe there are some things that are going on there that don't apply anywhere else. But its not the laws of physics. Its the collective mind set of the people.

PabloMack

You really should stop writing "social democracy" because those two words are a contradiction in terms. It is like you want to "have your cake and eat it too". "Democracy" implies that people have the freedom to run their own lives and spend some of their time participating in government. "Socialism" implies that the people have given up control of their lives in order to empower the government to impose the sort of order that is perceived to be the appropriate thing to do by whomever is in control. It often turns out to be a dictator. After socialism causes economic collapse, then people are more willing to make a "deal with the devil" and give up opportunity for perceived security. That is usualy a big mistake. We in the English-speaking world often wonder why Latin America seems to be making the same mistakes over and over again and not learning from the consequences of their choices. Albert Einstein is widely credited with saying, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Ariel DK

Quote from: PabloMack on November 02, 2019, 09:48:48 AMYou really should stop writing "social democracy" because those two words are a contradiction in terms...

Now is very obviously that you has been living in a parallel world, and you missed the last 50 years of latin america history, or the last 60 years of the Nordic countries history, because somebody with a respectable opinion about politics, just can not said something like that. I can't take you seriously anymore. I'm pretty sure that you cant even differentiate between Socialism and Communism, right? i let the days go to respond, for see how end the actual situation in Bolivia, and here is the result: a Coup against a elected president democratically reelected: the socialist candidate Evo Morales, who even called again to new elections to keep the peace, trying to leave behind any chance of fraud, but again political right-wing refused the peticion and unite with the army to ask his renounce, meanwhile other politician's families was kidnapped by special forces. to avoid more conflicts, he presented his renounce...

you are right: we are making the same mistakes over and over, because we are still trust in organisms like the IMF, which his supposed objetive is to help emergent economies, but instead, all they do is indebt the countries that they already know that they will not be able to pay later. i remarked this sentence because i think is interesting that any North American, or European citizen reading this, knows how the money of their taxes is wasted. of course there is still a big part of the high class here (corporationist), that push the limits of democracy to make things like this happens, because they are the only beneficed by this consevadurist measures. this is why because we are asking socialism keep, because the last 15 years of socialism (not communism, please do the differentiation), was the BEST 15 years that most of the latin american peoples ever had. you can see it in REAL economical numbers, like the link i let you above, in social index, industrialization, and a lot of others EMPIRIC datas. data that you just cannot denied. and we haved total democracys all this 15 years, with exception of Venezuela, there wasn't any other dictatorial government in south america in the 21th century. here, the dictatorships always has come with right-wing governments. is this so difficult to understand to you? what more you need for consider that maybe you have a wrong perception of what latin america is? after all, don't forget of what this thread is about...
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?