Why is it called 4D?

Started by WAS, March 23, 2021, 10:24:46 PM

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WAS

Bonus video because it started because of autoplay. Really love this guys accent (Scottish?) so I sat down and been watching. Lol


Kadri

There is always the danger in Mathematics and Physics(if it goes too much into the former) like in psychology.
You can say anything in psychology ( sorry... i like psychology actually).
The problem with it is if you can not proof and more importantly falsify anything then you can say everything you want.

I am sure you could build many world models that have more then 20 dimensions.
Speaking about and using 4 dimensions in Mathematics isn't a proof that there are really 4 dimensions.

Don't get me wrong. I don't say that these are wrong.
But so far we know the real world is only 3 dimensions  together with time only 4....space time or whatever you call it.

I have mine own thoughts about this since many years and want to write about it ( i have different thoughts then i myself wrote above even, to not to get too confusing and sound like some of those lunatics on the web...ooops).
But i am still kinda procrastinating with Terragen then to sit down and write :)
I said to myself the animation i am now making will be the last and i will then begin to write...will see what happens ;)

Kadri

Yeah i like those videos too. They are interesting.
At least you can better visualise what it could be if 4 dimensions were true.

Kadri

Hi Matt, if you read this why we don't have motion blur for objects? I am just curious what the problem is?
Anything related to this thread for example?

WAS

#19
Pretty suuuure many theories have proven the existence of a 4th dimension [or something very similar] otherwise our universe is based on magic. Lol.

CSP, and Planck CMB Survey to name a couple. Without our universe being hyperspherical as all models have shown, much of our understanding of things is based on magic, not understanding the 4th dimension. And again, we can easily do the math, and the equations equate, and as shown, we can visualize the data just the same as 3D in 2D.

I would say not believing in the 4th dimension isn't standard to practice these days.

Kadri

#20
Confusing yeah...
What i mean by 4th was the way you used it as a spatial dimension like XYZ like that video.
Time as an 4th dimension is not what i am against and was not my intention there.

(i am actually but that is a different thing too complicated to talk here)

Dune

In reality something moving has specific locations too at every moment in time, it's just divided into extremely small 'moments'. In animation it's 25 per second. 4D just translates that, just an easy annotation. But you know that of course.
When you start thinking about time, you soon ( :P ) end up in a chaotic mind and endless ( :P  again) discussions.

Kadri

Quote from: Dune on March 24, 2021, 03:18:43 AM...
When you start thinking about time, you soon ( :P ) end up in a chaotic mind and endless ( :P  again) discussions.
Pretty much yeah ;D

WAS

Quote from: Kadri on March 24, 2021, 03:01:03 AMWhat i mean by 4th was the way you used it as a spatial dimension like XYZ like that video.
Time as an 4th dimension is not what i am against and was not my intention there.

Again, these are totally different things. The 4th dimension of space-time is not the 4th dimension of space which gives us the hyperspheroid that is our Universe that only a hyperspherical universe could account for it's anomalies in perception. Which is a 4-dimensional shape in space.

4th dimension of space-time is just a 4th dimension of time in the universe (which is a 4-dimensional euclidean hyperspheroid). People unfortunately get them confused or use them interchangeably, when they are different things. There is no time in physical space. That's why I linked that one website on the last page which tries to help differentiate them.

Kadri

It is a confusing topic in itself and when i read what you wrote it gets worse...so no comment.

Just let me say this. I think most of it is is just abstract mathematics.
Nice and certainly very smart things. But not what the real world is.
And "real" is an problem in itself without even whatnot number of dimensions added.
"That's why I linked that one website on the last page which tries to help differentiate them." Which link do you mean?


PabloMack

Just a commentary or tirade if you want to call it that.

W alphabetically comes before X and not after Z. So a point in 4D space should be (W,X,Y,Z) not (X,Y,Z,W). I know it is nit-picky.

Also, people should get into the habit of saying "four spacial dimensions" or "four dimensions of distance" and not assume that distance is always implied when you say "dimension". I can have four dimensions that have differing units such as energy, charge, mass and time. None of these are "distance". Also, mathematicians often talk about "4D Space" and they are often not talking about Distance Dimensions. They are often sloppy in other ways like omitting operators as in A = 4B + C. They should write A = 4 × B + C. It's one of my gripes about what mathematicians do. This omission makes it impossible to use variable and constant names that are more than one letter long. For example, would A = BC + D be equivalent to A = B × C + D or is BC a variable name? Their laziness is what turned me off to being a math major and the field in general.

My brother once told me a story about a mathematician who committed suicide because he ran out of mathematical symbols to serve as variable names. Programmers have solved that problem by always showing the operators explicitly instead of making them invisible and making every body else guess as to what they mean.

I guess what I am saying is that a lot of confusion comes from being inconsistent with the words we use in our sentences.

Kadri

Quote from: PabloMack on March 24, 2021, 09:06:26 AM...
Also, people should get into the habit of saying "four spacial dimensions" or "four dimensions of distance" and not assume that distance is always implied when you say "dimension". I can have four dimensions that have differing units such as energy, charge, mass and time. None of these are "distance". Also, mathematicians often talk about "4D Space" and they are often not talking about Distance Dimensions. ...
...
I guess what I am saying is that a lot of confusion comes from being inconsistent with the words we use in our sentences.
Yeah and when you read and write in a foreign language it gets even harder.

If this link is what Jordan means (https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-the-fourth-dimension.htm) when i read it it sounds more like i wrote above. But from Jordans wording it looks like he means and reads it as something else.

It looks like with writing it should be easier.
But from what i saw in the past these kind of different perceptions are better or faster handled with talking directly.

PabloMack

Quote from: Kadri on March 24, 2021, 09:20:33 AMYeah and when you read and write in a foreign language it gets even harder.
I apologize on behalf of the English speaking world for not having our $#!^ together before we open our mouths.

Kadri

Quote from: PabloMack on March 24, 2021, 09:45:58 AM
Quote from: Kadri on March 24, 2021, 09:20:33 AMYeah and when you read and write in a foreign language it gets even harder.
I apologize on behalf of the English speaking world for not having our $#!^ together before we open our mouths.
See... that wasn't what i meant. It was myself having trouble to understand and write what i mean and not the English speaking world :D