How to get rid of cloud floating bits

Started by cedmen, April 12, 2023, 07:02:26 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

cedmen

Hi, 
I am trying to create a sky as realistic as possible to use as a backdrop for my matte-paintings done professionally.
Overall the 360 render looks pleasing but all the extra floating bits give it away immediately.

Where in the settings can I find a place to trim all those bits from the noise pattern. I tried every in the Density fractal of the cloud v3.

Also my cloud v3 looks quite soft, and not define. I included my working file

Also tried with easy clouds


Kevin Kipper

Hi cedmen,

There are a number of things you can try and it depends in part on the type of cloud you're using.  For Version 2 and Version 3 cloud layers you can access the noise pattern by selecting the cloud layer in the Cloud Layout and clicking the "Pattern" button.  To fine tune the noise patterns, try adjusting the settings under the Density tab, such as Coverage adjust and Roughness.  You may also be able to achieve this via the cloud layer's "Coverage adjust" setting under the Main tab.

For Easy Cloud types, try tweaking the "Coverage" setting found under the Main tab.

Be sure to check out the documentation for all these cloud layer types:

https://planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Cloud_Layer_v2
https://planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Cloud_Layer_v3
https://planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Easy_Cloud

Dune

In V2 clouds the base whispiness fragments clouds more, so I'd set that to zero. You can also use  Coverage Gamma to try and reduce loose small clouds, or add a color adjust after the density fractal and work the sliders.
And in V3 easy clouds I think a higher variation (4 for instance) and high density (3) makes clouds more compact and 'sticking together'.

pokoy

Base whispiness will always introduce small detached bits, set it to 0 or 0.1 highest if you don't want them.
High noise roughness values will also introduce/increase them, it's best to keep it around 1.5-1.6. Noise variation clumping can help with diminishing them but may introduce other effects, but in general it's very useful to get less regular patterns.

Keep in mind that using only one noise for density will probably not be enough to get a realistic shape, it may end up looking too regular with only one noise. Use another noise node as the main density noise's mask to introduce irregularities, or for 'Final density'.

To get a more defined look it's important to use a high enough number of voxels, otherwise the light cache is not detailed enough. A good rule of thumb is that a v3 cloud layer should have a minimum of 20 voxels in its Y dimension (voxel buffer resolution in the cloud layer's optimization tab). Especially important for thicker clouds.

Another default parameter that's slightly too low for defined clouds is 'Sun glow amount', I find it needs to be around 2.5 to 3, and you can play with 'Sun glow power' to introduce more contrast. But this is highly dependent on the angle of the sun so it needs to be adjusted sometimes.

Yet another one is 'Ray marching Quality' in the Quality tab, it's default value at 0.1 is way too low, use a minimum of 1 and go higher if your clouds render too noisy.

Then, for better definition of cloud shapes, you can of course increase 'Edge sharpness' while decreasing 'Cloud density' to maintain the general density.

But yes, it's definitely not easy to get photorealistic results, it takes a lot of time since values leading to more realism increase the render time, and a lot of trying... and quite some luck to get the right noise pattern. And you probably want to avoid the Easy Clouds presets, I never found them to produce realistic shapes and always use a generic cloud layer and go from there.

cedmen

Thank you @Dune, I never tried to go over 1 on the variation. I give a try to your tips

cedmen

Quote from: Dune on April 13, 2023, 03:38:10 AMIn V2 clouds the base whispiness fragments clouds more, so I'd set that to zero. You can also use  Coverage Gamma to try and reduce loose small clouds, or add a color adjust after the density fractal and work the sliders.
And in V3 easy clouds I think a higher variation (4 for instance) and high density (3) makes clouds more compact and 'sticking together'.
Quote from: pokoy on April 13, 2023, 04:47:33 AMBase whispiness will always introduce small detached bits, set it to 0 or 0.1 highest if you don't want them.
High noise roughness values will also introduce/increase them, it's best to keep it around 1.5-1.6. Noise variation clumping can help with diminishing them but may introduce other effects, but in general it's very useful to get less regular patterns.

Keep in mind that using only one noise for density will probably not be enough to get a realistic shape, it may end up looking too regular with only one noise. Use another noise node as the main density noise's mask to introduce irregularities, or for 'Final density'.

To get a more defined look it's important to use a high enough number of voxels, otherwise the light cache is not detailed enough. A good rule of thumb is that a v3 cloud layer should have a minimum of 20 voxels in its Y dimension (voxel buffer resolution in the cloud layer's optimization tab). Especially important for thicker clouds.

Another default parameter that's slightly too low for defined clouds is 'Sun glow amount', I find it needs to be around 2.5 to 3, and you can play with 'Sun glow power' to introduce more contrast. But this is highly dependent on the angle of the sun so it needs to be adjusted sometimes.

Yet another one is 'Ray marching Quality' in the Quality tab, it's default value at 0.1 is way too low, use a minimum of 1 and go higher if your clouds render too noisy.

Then, for better definition of cloud shapes, you can of course increase 'Edge sharpness' while decreasing 'Cloud density' to maintain the general density.

But yes, it's definitely not easy to get photorealistic results, it takes a lot of time since values leading to more realism increase the render time, and a lot of trying... and quite some luck to get the right noise pattern. And you probably want to avoid the Easy Clouds presets, I never found them to produce realistic shapes and always use a generic cloud layer and go from there.
Thank you, I will try your suggestions.
My voxels count is at usually 500 and ray marching always at 1. Is the voxels count too much?

I need to play more with the extra node like you said. 
Do you have a pointer/tutorial mostly explaining the nodes?
I have a thread ripped with 64 threads so it is not that bad but yeah I am spending my days moving decimals and re-rendering. 

WAS

#6
The Easy Cloud isn't really good for creating good clouds (at least imo). It's good at a certain artistic directive but isn't realistic. It's best to use V2/V3 with custom noise. I live in a convergence zone, we get every type of cloud conceivable, and honest never seen anything like Easy Cloud.

cedmen

Quote from: WAS on April 16, 2023, 02:53:41 PMThe Easy Cloud isn't really good for creating good clouds (at least imo). It's good at a certain artistic directive but isn't realistic. It's best to use V2/V3 with custom noise. I live in a convergence zone, we get every type of cloud conceivable, and honest never seen anything like Easy Cloud.
Your comment made me laugh, but I agree easycloud cloud quite unnatural. Why one would use v2 over v3 or vise versa?

WAS

Quote from: cedmen on April 16, 2023, 05:50:52 PMWhy one would use v2 over v3 or vise versa?

V2 is fast, but it's lighting model and interpretation of noise is kinda soft, so it's hit or miss sometimes. V3 has a much more realistic lighting model, but at the same time, I feel the lighting adjustments are a little more finicky then V2, but overall better quality.