Author Topic: TG Classic Remake NWDA Contest WIP  (Read 21015 times)

Offline Mohawk20

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback needed*
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 07:48:40 AM »
OK, the latest render below.

I really need some feedback now!
I like the foreground, with grass from Walli's first and second grass packs. But the background is wrong, something with the trees...
The height constraint can be higher, but perhaps the trees should be smaller. What do you think?
Howgh!

Offline domdib

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2009, 09:30:43 AM »
I'm not the best person to give an opinion on this, but I think the trees opposite look a little too "shiny". Maybe working on the translucency settings of the needles? Also, are they the same tree as in the foreground?

Offline Mohawk20

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 09:59:41 AM »
They are the same tree as in the foreground, combined with another tree. Both have 0.8 translucency, which is realistic for leaves, but perhaps a bit high for needles. Specularity is 0 on both models...
Howgh!

Offline Walli

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2009, 10:18:48 AM »
the problem with most distant forests is, that they look like one green "clump". Probably it helps to create a second population, use the same model but with adjusted materials (different shade of green)

Offline littlecannon

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2009, 02:02:07 PM »
Hi Mohawk20, I have taken your jpeg and done some photomatix and photoshop to it... It already makes a difference. Have a look and see what you think. There are 2 versions.. one is tonemapped and the other is Details Enhanced.

I agree about the clumping of one colour trees that Walli pointed out. Needs a bit more "random" thrown in. The grass in my Grassy Hill image has combined multiple populations of Walli's grasses, all the models and most of the versions.
Cheers, Simon.
I just need to tweak that texture a bit more...

Offline littlecannon

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2009, 02:02:44 PM »
And the Details Enhanced version:
I just need to tweak that texture a bit more...

Offline Mohawk20

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2009, 03:52:24 PM »
Thanks Walli! I have attached a powerfractal to the leaf shader as colour function to vary the colour of the image map. Don't know if it will work.

And Littlecannon, I have Photomatix myself so I can play with the actual exr. But as you can see you enhanced the noise even more, while want to get rid of it. Maybe I should increase the render detail to something above 1.
Howgh!

Offline RArcher

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2009, 04:27:42 PM »
I would say that if you are getting noise at a detail level of 1 and are thinking of rendering at even higher detail levels, then there is a problem somewhere else.  Perhaps AA, or changing the filter used would make more of a difference.

Offline littlecannon

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2009, 04:34:04 PM »
To be honest I didn't bother about the noise as it was there anyway... ignore that and see the details you couldn't see in the original. I was trying to make the image a bit sharper as the trees all blended together due to lack of "something".  Have you tried upping the atmosphere samples and AA? Upping AA seems to help.
I just need to tweak that texture a bit more...

Offline Mohawk20

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2009, 06:57:17 PM »
I would say that if you are getting noise at a detail level of 1 and are thinking of rendering at even higher detail levels, then there is a problem somewhere else.  Perhaps AA, or changing the filter used would make more of a difference.

Right, AA is at 3 at the moment...

I received an email about the new TG2Xfrog bundles, and your image was featured: http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/mountain_lake_storm_arriving.jpg.html
I'd like to achieve a similar result. Can you give any insight in what you did to get it that crisp?
Howgh!

Offline Tangled-Universe

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2009, 07:16:11 PM »
I would say that if you are getting noise at a detail level of 1 and are thinking of rendering at even higher detail levels, then there is a problem somewhere else.  Perhaps AA, or changing the filter used would make more of a difference.

Right, AA is at 3 at the moment...

I received an email about the new TG2Xfrog bundles, and your image was featured: http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/mountain_lake_storm_arriving.jpg.html
I'd like to achieve a similar result. Can you give any insight in what you did to get it that crisp?

Well, I'm not Ryan of course, but I have a decent idea how he did it and how I do it and it is fairly simple. I'm pretty sure you already know it yourself.

Mainly, his quality settings are just high, simply put. First to get detail and crispiness you'll need a resolution which supports this. So anything starting from around 1000px is fine.
A crisp render needs a clean atmo with just enough samples, but also the "trick" is to have a right balance between renderquality and AA.
Too much AA will make everything too smooth, too less will make it too rough (like yours). Very high detail settings are ok, but you can easily blur those details out with high AA or bad postwork.
I also have the impression your models aren't set at high or highest detail level? Or is it the quality of the render?

For this image I'd start with rendering at ~0.85 and AA ~8 and slowly increase it. Atmospheresamples from 48 will mostly suffice, but I find 64 a nice trade-off in quality and speed.

Another important aspect is the lighting. Ryan's example shows some dramatic lighting in terms of shadows and contrasts. There's a lot going on, so to say. Many shadows, low sun-angle(!), clean shadows (GI-settings, atmo-samples) etc.
Lighting makes or breaks an image in my opinion and is something I spend much time on in each image.
The POV and setup of this scene simply doesn't offer much possibilites to play with the light.

Martin
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 07:19:02 PM by Tangled-Universe »

Offline Mohawk20

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2009, 08:20:32 PM »

Anything starting from around 1000px is fine.

I also have the impression your models aren't set at high or highest detail level? Or is it the quality of the render?

For this image I'd start with rendering at ~0.85 and AA ~8 and slowly increase it. Atmospheresamples from 48 will mostly suffice, but I find 64 a nice trade-off in quality and speed.


Just a few spec's: 1024x768 (should be big enough right?).

Grass is at Highest detail, trees and bushes at High.

Render detail is 1, but AA was 3, so that could be the problem.

Atmo samples are at 64, and the cloud layer's detail is 1.

So the only problem would be the AA, and the lighting (which I will definitely change in further versions).
I'd like to enter this in the NWDA competition eventually. Should I put that in the title of the thread?
Howgh!

Offline FrankB

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2009, 08:28:31 PM »
I'd like to enter this in the NWDA competition eventually. Should I put that in the title of the thread?

absolutely and entirely your choice ;)

Cheers,
Frank

Offline Tangled-Universe

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2009, 08:33:18 PM »

Just a few spec's: 1024x768 (should be big enough right?).
Grass is at Highest detail, trees and bushes at High.
Render detail is 1, but AA was 3, so that could be the problem.
Atmo samples are at 64, and the cloud layer's detail is 1.

So the only problem would be the AA, and the lighting (which I will definitely change in further versions).
I'd like to enter this in the NWDA competition eventually. Should I put that in the title of the thread?

Of course, the resolution is there, I didn't complain about that. You asked how to get a clean/crisp look and I summed up the conditions.
Some of it you've met, some not, it's up to you to pick them out ;)

Offline Mohawk20

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Re: TG Classic Remake *Feedback Needed*
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2009, 08:52:21 PM »
Hahaha, now you can't help me anymore, I'm in your contest! :P

I'll see what happens with the next render. Might turn out spectacular...
Howgh!