UK General Elections 2010. Which way did you vote.

Started by cyphyr, May 06, 2010, 11:10:41 am

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Which way did you vote?

Labour
0 (0%)
Conservative
1 (10%)
LibDem
5 (50%)
Other
1 (10%)
Did not vote
3 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: May 08, 2010, 11:10:41 am

FrankB

I think that conceptually, it's great to have a common european currency, and a pan european sort-of government. However, both come with a great deal of new responsibilities that have to be assumed. I'm with PG on this point:  as a considerable part of the world population and economy, we turn to collaboration and integration and mutual support, and away from wars, hate, isolation, of which we had plenty and well enough in the past. Everyone seems to understand this, except the UK maybe, but they can't be blamed, as they're slightly confused from driving on the wrong side of the road since generations.

If you ask me the EU has simply expanded too fast, and politicians have not done their due diligence before accepted new members. I mean, what happens if you let a poor guy in your house with the promise to equally share both resources and cost? Right, he'll eat half your food and sleeps on your couch, but cannot add anything really to the bottom line. So that's a stupid strategy.

@Franck: you should definitely vote in any case. At least, make your cross for the least worst option. Yesterday, where I live, there were elections and only 58% or so of people went voting. So what happened? The first time in history after WW2 we have an extremist party sitting on their extremist arses in parliament. Because the more moderate people did not vote, but the crazy guys, they sure as hell went voting.

Regards,
Frank

Henry Blewer

The American system works much the same way. Our extremists tend to vote more than the the people who are not so left or right wing. This has lead to the Supreme Court ruling on Presidential elections, and long term politicians getting too comfortable in their seats. It has all lead to our government mostly controlled by lobbyists and people who refuse to compromise on issues vital to our nation and states.

Vote.
http://flickr.com/photos/njeneb/
Forget Tuesday; It's just Monday spelled with a T

Seth

Quote from: FrankB on May 10, 2010, 04:07:08 pm
The first time in history after WW2 we have an extremist party sitting on their extremist arses in parliament.


And last time you had one, it was because people voted for him ;)

FrankB

Quote from: Seth on May 10, 2010, 05:09:37 pm
Quote from: FrankB on May 10, 2010, 04:07:08 pm
The first time in history after WW2 we have an extremist party sitting on their extremist arses in parliament.


And last time you had one, it was because people voted for him ;)


err, no Franck that is not correct. Back then they seized both legislative and executive powers (by the use of violence and surpression), and eliminating opposition. And it doesn't free you from thinking again for yourself whether it's better to vote for the least worse option or let the crazy guys pick the nightmare for you ;)

FrankB

by the way the extremist party I was talking about who have won a few seats are left wing extremists, the successors of the party of the the old eastern german republic.

Seth

Ok let's go for my personnal reason not to vote anymore (left aside the provocation I usually use ^^)

I don't accept the fact that people that absolutely doesn't understand anything to politic, or to anything that Res Publica involved, can have the right to vote and that their voice has the same value as mine. That sounds not humble at all but i am honest (i truely always try to). I read almost every newspapers (well french newspapers) and some online news too, i try to keep my mind working and thinking and debatting with people that don't have my politic or social opinion everydays (what do you think Rhalph ? ;) ). I can assure you that the guys that lead our country, all over the world are not put in their thrones by people like me, or like you, that means majority of our citizens are just dumb people who doesn't even understand why they are voting and what does this or that imply politically or economically speaking.
I truely am against vote right for everybody. i think we should prove our value, to get the right to vote. people should be educated and should decide with mind and not with stupidity and heart what is best for a country, for people, for world and all.

As far as I know, politicians are jst fucking liers only fighting for power, not for any good for us all down there.

don't get me wrong here, I don't say that we should not have vote right at all, i just say that we need to educate people to give them the right to vote. where i work, during the last presidential elections, a woman with lond studies at school just asked me how long the president will be president in France !!!!! she didn't even knew that and yet, she voted every elections without even reading parties'programs !!!


that is not Res Publica, that is not, politic, that is not the right thing for us, that is buffonery and yet people think this is the best thing to do !

well maybe for you ! not with me dude, i don't want to be any part of it !


and you know what is the funny part of this reasonning ? listen, you, yes you, all voters, are responsible for all the problem our democracies are into right now, because you put all our leaders in their thrones ! we, the silent mass, we are just looking at you with pity and waiting for the so-called democracy to fall apart ;)

tell me Frank... what happened on January 30th 1933 ? oooh he was not directly elected Chancellor but he was named legally as the law stated...and as far as i rememeber in 1932 he get 30% then 36%... letting dumb people vote is far more dangerous than me not voting ;)

Seth

Quote from: FrankB on May 10, 2010, 05:40:50 pm
by the way the extremist party I was talking about who have won a few seats are left wing extremists, the successors of the party of the the old eastern german republic.


With all the informations we now have, NSDAP is very hard to place in the politic's chessboard ;)

FrankB

Quote from: Seth on May 10, 2010, 06:05:00 pm
tell me Frank... what happened on January 30th 1933 ? oooh he was not directly elected Chancellor but he was named legally as the law stated...and as far as i rememeber in 1932 he get 30% then 36%... letting dumb people vote is far more dangerous than me not voting ;)


I've learned a few things about it, and there were many circumstances that allowed this to happen. If it ever happens again, it's more likely to happen elsewhere in the world. But just to be clear, I do understand your thinking, but you're missing a few facts, for example I stated previously that surpression and violence was involved big time. Anyway, let's let this chapter rest and look at today.

Things are as they are, and that means if you don't vote (because of protest), someone else will take your share. So you not voting is indeed more dangerous than if you would. I mean, there's not much to debate, because it's just maths. No need to get emotional about it, just maths.
If there's no party for the silent mass as you call it, you are free to found one, aren't you? We have a green party around here. In the early 80's, they have been belittled by pretty much everyone on politics, and given, when I look at old pictures they were truly a bunch of freaks, However the core of their motivation resonated with quite a lot of people over the years (also a silent mass), and now they are the 3rd strongest political force in Germany. They have even been part of the reigning coalition for quite some years. So there you go, found a party :)

Cheers,
Frank

Seth

oh yes we had those green freaks in France too, and they are the third party in here too. they are still freaks though ^^
that's exactly my point frank : medias bring them to the front side of politics. not their ideas.

I am not a usual french democrat. i don't want universall suffrage. that is the most dangerous thing we invented. that gives full power to a given politician... and with the vote of stupid uneducated people :(

but, i understand your point of view, i truely do. it's just i really don't agree with the society you defend by being pert of it :) and i truely know that you are an honest guy trying to do best for his family and his kind ^^ it's just that i really am against all this corrupted way of political behavior.

Res Publica Frank ! Res Publica ! that is the only way ^^

Seth

green parties are like watermelons : green outside but red inside. and believe me, i truely hate communism ;D

PG

I do agree that politicians do seem to be elected by the spack attack vote, but I can't say I agree with only giving the vote to those who can prove they're educated enough to make a conscious decision. It brings you within dangerous reaches of re-education, the majority party altering that education to be more favourable to them. I think the free vote is a good thing and something people have fought very hard for, so simply denying it to all but the sufficiently educated would be a mistake. Certainly in this country it would just lead to the Tories ensuring that only those who went to public schools like Eton getting the vote.

Instead, I think, we should focus on educating everyone, not on the particular policies of a particular group, or even anything close to that, but on how important the electoral system is to how we live our lives. How your vote really can make the difference. Many seats in our recent election (U.K.) had less than a 10 vote majority, especially in the so-called "super-marginals" seats that change hands almost with every election and are always very closely fought and almost always end up deciding our elections, similar to the likes of Florida and Ohio in the US elections.
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

Henry Blewer

I end up voting for the person who I believe will do the best job, and uphold the ideology I follow. I do not consider myself extreme. The weird thing about elected politicians is they act as a single organism. When this happens people get hurt; it like they forget who they are supposed to represent.
http://flickr.com/photos/njeneb/
Forget Tuesday; It's just Monday spelled with a T

PG

Quote from: njeneb on May 11, 2010, 08:18:31 am
it like they forget who they are supposed to represent.


Couldn't agree more, just look at what David Cameron said today. "My party has shown that they are willing to put aside party interest for national interest by agreeing to a referendum on the Alternative Vote". But the Alternative vote isn't even close to what the Lib Dems wanted or indeed 60-70% of the British public want according to most polls. The AV system is the same as first past the post except you vote for a number of MPs 1st to last in order of who you want most, if there is no clear winner from the 1sts then they tally up the 2nds then 3rds till someone has a majority.
How is that in the national interest, it's not proportional to the will of the populace and as the polls suggest isn't what the country wants. But if you look at projected results from the Proportional Representation model of voting, the conservatives would get hammered right back to a state where all 3 parties are pretty much equal. So it's not in the public interest to avoid a referendum on PR, it's in the Conservative interest.
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

efflux

May 13, 2010, 09:33:20 pm #28 Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 09:48:37 pm by efflux
"I really don't buy into this "New World Order" thing, no one would gain anything from it other than perhaps anarchists, because it'd be a lot easier to build support. You can argue that CEO's and other businessmen would become immensely rich from it, which could potentially be true, but their businesses would stagnate from lack of competition in trade which would have a knock on effect of the stock market grinding to a halt, all connected currencies plummeting in value and their immense wealth suddenly being worth less than if they'd left things alone."

PG. This is exactly the plan which we see unfolding. It is text book Marxism but Marxists are just useful idiots. The real plan is really more like Fascism, at the moment anyway.

It will be left to Americans to save the system because their system is the only one that can work. This will probably only be realised after Europe has been wiped out (again) because only then can the real attack on the dollar begin. United States is the only country ever in history where people have been properly free. There are other countries that have given a degree of freedom but that has been almost totally reliant on the United States.

I can assure you without question that all of us would be living in total tyranny if it was not for the United States. Sadly, the US has been taken over. This has happened over many many years. Obama is a complete traitor as are most of our leaders but they are just useful idiots for the real controllers who are behind the banks.

Seth

Quote from: efflux on May 13, 2010, 09:33:20 pm
United States is the only country ever in history where people have been properly free. There are other countries that have given a degree of freedom but that has been almost totally reliant on the United States.


???
it is a joke, isn't it ?!