Feature Request: Procedural Rock Grain Generator

Started by Cyber-Angel, October 21, 2007, 01:30:12 AM

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FrankB

Quote from: calico on October 23, 2007, 10:36:26 AM
I've found I can do more with an application if I understand it as opposed to knowing some of its working parts.  Fortunately, this community has provided this opportunity.   :-*

all true. I've been kidding.

Cheers,
Frank

rcallicotte

Ahhh.  Okay.   ;D

I haven't been.  LOL  I don't envy someone coming into this application a year from now when all of this interactivity is not as necessary.  I think we're lucky at this stage (especially you and the other Alpha testers, Frank), since we're all searching for the ins and outs.  Someone coming in cold next year will need to wade through old conversations, since most of us will be on to other things.  I guess.  This might be another subject altogether, though...I'm looking at the Subject to this discussion and I don't think I'm on mark.   ;D
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

efflux

#17
A lot of the functions I've used involve trying to manipulate the voronoi noise so that's why I put a voronoi fractal at the top of my wants list. I think once Matt gets past the UI, multi core etc then a voronoi fractal should be priority. It's really important for any procedural generator to have this. At present TG2 is essentially a one fractal app. Voronoi fractal is the next most useful after Perlin. You have to consider that TG2 is fundamentally a procedural generator. Blender has more fractals. This is TG2's weakness. I'm finding that this is the limit now with it's capabilities. Look at this render from Mojo and you'll understand why we have to have Voronoi fractal to get all those lovely voronoi octaves:

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8081/volcanicsz4.jpg

We can get the surfaces of those rocks in the links from Cyber-Angel but we can not get the variety of rock forms that voronoi can provide.

Volker Harun

It is a nice image - but we do have voronis .... it is just a matter of combining several scales and using maybe a warp-shader ,-)

efflux

That's a lot of hassle though Volker and certainly not something the average user is going to do. For example a perfect use of a voronoi fractal would be in our tower technique or clamp and mask as it really should be because that's fundamentally what's going on. It's not just for crazy extreme towers. If we had voronoi fractal we could clamp and mask it to get beautiful outcrops of rock.

efflux

We do however have the alpine fractal. Anyone tried doing anything interesting with that  ;)

efflux

#21
The alpine fractal actually has a voronoi basis and if you guys tweak round with that you'll find it pretty versatile but it displaces the wrong way for rock clumps and I see no way of changing this so in essense it should be easy for Matt to make a voronoi fractal that displaces convex voronoi clumps instead of concave. It could be more or less similar to the alpine fractal. Why Matt didn't do this is beyond me.
???

efflux

I got around it  8)

I've forced the Alpine fractal to create amazing rock textures. Test renders coming soon.

rcallicotte

Okay, efflux.  More, more, more.  This sounds cool and I want to experiment.  What are you doing?
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

efflux

The alpine fractal is slow rendering so this will take some time. It's not ideal but with various tweakings you can get some cool rock effects. I'm not sure how much of the alpine fractal is actually voronoi but it has some other really cool settings anyway.

efflux

The alpine fractal appears to use voronoi as it's basic structure then some other function that Matt has come up with to create the details. The voronoi with no warping is horrible and there is no way I can find to truly get rid of the voronoi ridges. However the alpine fractal has some cool effects that when tweaked about just by themselves create superb effects. The secret is with inverting the displacement. You can also merge the alpine with power fractals. We can't make the voronoi into "cracks" rather than ridges but it's still cool. I'll post some images soon.

efflux

#26
I don't like those scalloped effects in the alpine fractal but of course Matt did this to get an alpine effect. It could have been a little more versatile in my opinion though.

I edited this message because what I said about the warping is not that simple but fairly easily possible. I didn't do it the way I initially had thought.

efflux

Here's my first two tests and it appears with some tweakery you can get cracked rock without that scalloped alpine look and you can simply use this as a basic voronoi to play with and no blue function nodes. I didn't use any. Render times are longer but if you initially tweak the detail out and then bring that back up at render times it's usable.



The first one involves giving the fractal a negative displacement value and warping it. The rest I leave to you. The second one is positive displacement, also warped slightly and sent through a transform shader to stretch one dimension. Playing with the deposition values are important to try to avoid that scalloped look.

The alpine fractal is unique but not so cool by itself as a terrain. However when tweaked and combined with perlin you get some great results:



This is a more interesting terrain than just perlin alone. There are a lot of flowing lines and cells from the alpine fractal but I like that. Surfaces over the top would improve it. Blending terrains in TG2 causes step like problems. What causes this? It happens every time I blend terrains so much so that I rarely do it. This is no good because the only way to get truly interesting terrains is to blend them. However, this feels like something bigger in scale. It also has an altitude clamp for the cliffs but when merged with an inverted alpine fractal, the cliffs are broken up in a very nice way. Some of the most interesting terrains are ones where there are lots of steps of some sort but blended so the steps get distorted and look natural. Perfectly horizontal stratas and big perfectly stepped ledges don't usually look too good to me.

mogn

Unless a macro facility can be edited online, I don't regard it as a help!

FrankB

Quote from: mogn on October 24, 2007, 01:28:37 AM
Unless a macro facility can be edited online, I don't regard it as a help!

What do you mean, edited online?