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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Tangled-Universe on August 04, 2010, 04:13:54 pm

Title: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 04, 2010, 04:13:54 pm
Long time ago I have touched TG2.
Thought it would be nice to do something a bit different :)
Maybe I'll improve this a bit further, but I'm quite happy with it now.

Rendertime was ~4 hours @ 1920x960.
No GI, since that doesn't work at all when having shadows underwater.
Detail was 2 and AA6.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: FrankB on August 04, 2010, 04:21:04 pm
Looking super cool, very realistic. I would like to sit there right now and let my feet hang into the stream :-)

Sure about the GI shadows underwater? Wouldn't unchecking "visible to other rays" in the lake object help?

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Jack on August 04, 2010, 04:26:53 pm
ohhh lovely makes me thirsty looking at it haha

i really like the fractals on the water surface and your textures are superb as always ;)
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Henry Blewer on August 04, 2010, 04:38:01 pm
I wonder if using soft shadows would make this just that much better? Other than that, awesome.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: RArcher on August 04, 2010, 04:56:37 pm
Really nice.  The sand ripples were a great touch.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: schmeerlap on August 04, 2010, 05:35:05 pm
Excellent quality.
Very impressive displacement on those rocks. Did you use the Terragen Rock Object as a base?

John
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: old_blaggard on August 04, 2010, 06:47:15 pm
Great detail in the textures of the rocks. What quality setting did you have to render at to remove the pixellation from the water?
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Seth on August 04, 2010, 07:35:36 pm
wow !
awesome Martin !
lovely rock's texture !
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 05, 2010, 02:46:05 am
Thanks guys :)

Quote from: old_blaggard on August 04, 2010, 06:47:15 pm
Great detail in the textures of the rocks. What quality setting did you have to render at to remove the pixellation from the water?


This was rendered at detail 2. Effectively this should result in detail 1 beneath the water surface.

Quote from: schmeerlap on August 04, 2010, 05:35:05 pm
Excellent quality.
Very impressive displacement on those rocks. Did you use the Terragen Rock Object as a base?

John


No I did not use the Rock Object...this is all fake stone work. 4 layers to be precise.

Quote from: RArcher on August 04, 2010, 04:56:37 pm
Really nice.  The sand ripples were a great touch.


For the sake of rendertime I had to step aside from one of my strong principle: to do everything procedural. My own sand-ripple shader took ages to render in this setup, so therefore I used an image-map *shame*

Quote from: njeneb on August 04, 2010, 04:38:01 pm
I wonder if using soft shadows would make this just that much better? Other than that, awesome.


The default soft-shadow diameter of 0.5 degrees is not noticeable. I attached another render which uses soft shadows at 1 degrees with 11 samples.
As you can see, still not very noticeably better. I also added GI to this image for Frank, so it's not an entirely nice picture to compare, but you should be able to see it.

Quote from: FrankB on August 04, 2010, 04:21:04 pm
Looking super cool, very realistic. I would like to sit there right now and let my feet hang into the stream :-)

Sure about the GI shadows underwater? Wouldn't unchecking "visible to other rays" in the lake object help?

Cheers,
Frank


Yes absolutely sure. I did quite some tests and I have seen it working just once or twice. Probably pure luck with the "GI-seed". I could dig in my temp files to see if I can find that render. It shows very nice artefacts: clear shadows cast from stones above the water, but black shadow cast from the stones which are already under the watersurface.

I rendered this image with GI 1/3. Render detail was 2 so effectively it should be GI 2/6. I also added softshadows for Henry.
The bottom left buckets took insanely long to render. More than 1,5 hour of the near 9 hours total rendertime. So I aborted it, because I became too impatient.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Dune on August 05, 2010, 03:36:28 am
Very, very nice Martin. As always.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Henry Blewer on August 05, 2010, 06:18:35 am
Maybe you should borrow my Pentium 4 HT. ;D    I would be happy with a 9 hour render.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Hannes on August 05, 2010, 06:29:25 am
Looks great!!
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 05, 2010, 06:57:09 am
Thanks Ulco and Hannes :)

Quote from: njeneb on August 05, 2010, 06:18:35 am
Maybe you should borrow my Pentium 4 HT. ;D    I would be happy with a 9 hour render.


Ghehe, well normally I'm very patient with renders. 9 hours for a final render is what I'm used to, even much longer.
However, I'm not very patient when it seems that <10% of the surface-area takes >25% of the total rendertime ;D
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: domdib on August 05, 2010, 07:42:36 am
Excellent work - image shader or not, the sand ripples are the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: inkydigit on August 05, 2010, 08:50:02 am
very nice, Martin, I echo the above....now some fishes?
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 05, 2010, 09:12:24 am
Quote from: inkydigit on August 05, 2010, 08:50:02 am
very nice, Martin, I echo the above....now some fishes?


Thanks Jason :) Well...honestly I was thinking about it, but couldn't find nice models.

However, I do have the Red Sea library from XFrog which contains some anemonies and see-weeds.
I tried those and the refraction destroyed their looks too much. I might try it again, but for now I'll move on to something else.

Martin
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Kadri on August 05, 2010, 09:35:55 am

"image-map" ? How could you do that?  ;D

Nice render , Martin !

I am doing a water test image since 2 days and i can't stand the long render times. You are patient really !
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 05, 2010, 09:38:31 am
Thanks Kadri :) Yes...image-map..I know...shame on me :P
I used a fill-light setup, which is considerably faster than GI. Perhaps that's also the reason why you think it's so slow and why I'm so patient ;)
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Kadri on August 05, 2010, 09:48:29 am
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on August 05, 2010, 09:38:31 am
Thanks Kadri :) Yes...image-map..I know...shame on me :P
I used a fill-light setup, which is considerably faster than GI. Perhaps that's also the reason why you think it's so slow and why I'm so patient ;)


No i know you are patient ;) But thanks for the tip  :)
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Zairyn Arsyn on August 05, 2010, 10:29:07 am
(jumps in TG2 water) Splash!  :D
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on August 05, 2010, 09:12:24 am
Quote from: inkydigit on August 05, 2010, 08:50:02 am
very nice, Martin, I echo the above....now some fishes?


Thanks Jason :) Well...honestly I was thinking about it, but couldn't find nice models.

However, I do have the Red Sea library from XFrog which contains some anemonies and see-weeds.
I tried those and the refraction destroyed their looks too much. I might try it again, but for now I'll move on to something else.

Martin


i have some fish models (in obj format) - a couple to be exact.
but their not mine, there was link to them here on the forums in a post from a few years back
i think the website is down though...

this looks really good, i especially like the sand and the little rocks/pebbles on the bottom
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Hannes on August 05, 2010, 12:17:55 pm
No reason to be ashamed for using image map shaders! When it's faster and the result is good, why not use it?
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Dune on August 05, 2010, 01:20:23 pm
I use them all the time (as masks), but I can imagine the aim for purism. Like watercolorists hating to use opaque paint to fix their mistakes.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Oshyan on August 06, 2010, 01:54:15 am
Detail 2 should be equivalent to .5 underwater I believe. You'd need 4 for detail 1 equivalence, unfortunately. Assuming at least that the terrain detail underwater responds the same as in Raytrace Everything.

But regardless it looks quite good!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Dune on August 06, 2010, 03:10:15 am
Wouldn't it be possible to add a slider (+ default as it is today) to increase detail underwater?
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Oshyan on August 06, 2010, 03:25:45 am
Probably, yes. It's something I'd like to do, but doesn't fit into the development priorities at the moment.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 06, 2010, 05:18:38 am
Quote from: Oshyan on August 06, 2010, 01:54:15 am
Detail 2 should be equivalent to .5 underwater I believe. You'd need 4 for detail 1 equivalence, unfortunately. Assuming at least that the terrain detail underwater responds the same as in Raytrace Everything.

But regardless it looks quite good!

- Oshyan


Are you certain Oshyan? It's really stuck into my brain that the detail multiplier of the watertransparency is set to 0.5. I believe that actually you told me that :)
Anyhow...I'm testing now and it seems you're right as far as I can tell while rendering.
Will show the result later.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Dune on August 07, 2010, 03:22:04 am
Will you be needing any fish, Martin? I've got some downloaded from this (downed?) site.

---Dune
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 07, 2010, 04:24:43 am
Quote from: Dune on August 07, 2010, 03:22:04 am
Will you be needing any fish, Martin? I've got some downloaded from this (downed?) site.

---Dune


Thanks for the offer Ulco :)
At the moment I'm working on/finishing another scene and perhaps I'll render it again with even higher settings.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: ra on August 07, 2010, 03:36:36 pm
Very convincing work! Great! I really like those "macro" renders.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 07, 2010, 05:49:48 pm
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on August 06, 2010, 05:18:38 am
Quote from: Oshyan on August 06, 2010, 01:54:15 am
Detail 2 should be equivalent to .5 underwater I believe. You'd need 4 for detail 1 equivalence, unfortunately. Assuming at least that the terrain detail underwater responds the same as in Raytrace Everything.

But regardless it looks quite good!

- Oshyan


Are you certain Oshyan? It's really stuck into my brain that the detail multiplier of the watertransparency is set to 0.5. I believe that actually you told me that :)
Anyhow...I'm testing now and it seems you're right as far as I can tell while rendering.
Will show the result later.


Yes Oshyan, you are right. The multiplier seems to be set at 0.25.
I'm rendering now at 3.4 detail which should be equivalent to 0.85.
After 8 hours nearly done for 60% and it's looking very good :)

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Oshyan on August 08, 2010, 12:54:08 am
Yeah, the 4:1 ratio come from my recollection of conversation with Matt. Hopefully we'll have options on this in the future. ;D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 08, 2010, 04:03:14 am
Quote from: Oshyan on August 08, 2010, 12:54:08 am
Yeah, the 4:1 ratio come from my recollection of conversation with Matt. Hopefully we'll have options on this in the future. ;D

- Oshyan


Here's the det 3.4 render. Compared with the previous version not that much better, but you can especially see more small scale detail in some rocks. However, it's also quite dependant on how the refraction is at that specific part.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Oshyan on August 08, 2010, 02:42:24 pm
Yes, I would say the absolute detail equivalency matters a lot more when refraction is not involved as that can hide the effects of lower detail settings.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: Tangled-Universe on November 25, 2012, 10:46:19 am
After the introduction of the ray detail multiplier rendering an animation of this became much more feasible :)

You can find it here, in 720p ;D
http://vimeo.com/54226393 ==> Download source movie (17MB) for much better quality.

I started a topic about this animation in the Animation forums, here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15295.0

Please leave your crits/comments there, thanks! :)
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: efflux on November 27, 2012, 08:19:37 am
This is cool. It's something I want to do more of. I've only recently tended towards using water and I want to work more on shorelines with rocks like this.
Title: Re: Refraction
Post by: TheBadger on November 27, 2012, 12:52:16 pm
Highly effective as a still! A beauty.