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General => Terragen Animation => Topic started by: Ariel DK on September 05, 2019, 06:38:23 pm

Title: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on September 05, 2019, 06:38:23 pm
So, i decided finish this one at big. i was working with Oshyan, who help me a lot rendering this for me, but i was some months out due personal problems, and i discontinue this work. whatever, lets get to work again!

The scene has obviously improvement from the last render that i post here, and i was thinking in a spaceship to tell some story, but maybe some kind of "Accident/Debris" scenery will work better...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-VO_evtxNd7AR5sV0G3pnbZccwfPl-BR
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: cyphyr on September 05, 2019, 07:26:42 pm
Well that is impressive!
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Hannes on September 06, 2019, 09:41:44 am
Amazing!!!
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on September 06, 2019, 09:55:01 am
Thanks guys!
The new scene where I'm going to work: a broken spaceship corridor floating in the exterior zone of a stellar mass black hole.  ;D

For now i'm just preparing the scene, but before that, i noticed that in the render window the image looks good, but in the final tiff is too dark.
here is a PW version compared with the original one, somebody knows how to simulate enhance HDR tones inside TG? i know that TG have an EXR output, but no sure how to set it up for animations...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: archonforest on September 06, 2019, 11:45:41 am
WOW!!!!
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on September 07, 2019, 02:27:56 am
Final Presentation

Added some extra destruction and debris, i find out that i can use Photoshop for enhance HDR tones even with videos, without an image sequence, what was a surprise for an 8 years old PS user like me, so, you can always learn something new, and talking about that, this will be my 1st project where the camera animation was done entirely inside TG...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on September 09, 2019, 04:14:06 pm
It seems that improving the HDR tones of any video within PS creates a loss of resolution that i don't know how to avoid, so i directly used the TG tiff image sequence provided by Oshyan to make the final video, and yes, there is some strange artifacts and elements that need to be corrected:
- weird debris rotation
- Is supposed that box at the right side of the camera, is bouncing against the right wall of the tunnel, but there is some strange movement just before it disappear of the view
- There is a ghost, invisible, totally BLACK spaceship at the right in the final seconds, of course, is not supposed that should looks like that.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Vd2D7MEkhEbkDknClO1rm8AxMsqCRF3h

And finally, i need to choose a cool thematic to show: "Tetric Dead Astronauts", or "Star Wars Space Ruins"?  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Dune on September 10, 2019, 02:07:51 am
Cool animation!
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Oshyan on September 26, 2019, 03:33:49 pm
Hmm, does this look familiar? :D

https://www.techspot.com/news/82079-nasa-visualizes-black-hole-warped-world.html

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on September 26, 2019, 08:58:43 pm
Quote from: Oshyan on September 26, 2019, 03:33:49 pmHmm, does this look familiar? :D

Yes it is! even before the M-87's Black Hole image was published, i already was investigated this stuff
the Doppler beaming effect in only one side of the disc, is something that i don't know how to replicate for now. rendering in layers and tweak in PS could be a better solution, which does not mean that i can't try to achieve this effect with some other artistic trick inside TG...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: DocCharly65 on October 07, 2019, 07:57:04 am
Very cool!
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on November 29, 2019, 11:46:07 am
"Star Wars Vs Real Physics"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iTa474wCgjWKYyBOMXkFiwiPBtyo5qMQ

The Debris is still weird, but is an improvement ;D
I also opened this thread (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,27333.0.html) asking for a possible solution to the debris motion problem. any advice/help is welcome.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: DocCharly65 on November 29, 2019, 01:22:21 pm
A really cool and almost hypnotic animation!

Unfortunately I don't know enough facts about relativistic effects around a blackhole.
I was impressed that the behavior of the "frozen" objects like the astronaut look correct. I could only imagine, that usualy from the perspective of the beholder we should be overtaken by debris... but they would slow down - or stuck in time too... theoretically...

Weird physics!

But just as interesting and nice looking effect without physical correctness you could let some debris rotate with the forground part of the accretion disk and some debris let overtake us... ? Just an idea... :o :)
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: DocCharly65 on November 29, 2019, 01:54:53 pm
I just read the other thread (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,27333.0.html)...  ;D

What if you mix about 5-6 pops of debris floating into the accretions disk direction?
And the same in the "overtaking us direction".

The pops staying still but the objects moving via translate in x,y or z (I dont know which is which in your project)

In every population a little difference of translating speed and a different rotation. All in linear mode.

With a little bit luck and experimenting you won't have floating objects through each other and you'll have a nice avraety because of the random rotation startposition of each object.

Without the rotation I used this method for my Starfleet City's air traffic... wasn't the worst decision :)
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: DocCharly65 on November 29, 2019, 02:08:16 pm
Quote from: DocCharly65 on November 29, 2019, 01:54:53 pmThe pops staying still but the objects moving via translate in x,y or z (I dont know which is which in your project)
sorry... the other way around

translate the population area into x,y or z direction (I dont know which is which in your project)

only the rotation is done in the obj maker
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Dune on November 30, 2019, 02:12:33 am
I actually don't know if the movement of a pop area will make instances locate at different locations (not relative to that movement I mean). I once noticed that a small movement just shifted them, and that would then work.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on November 30, 2019, 11:28:23 am
Quote from: DocCharly65 on November 29, 2019, 01:22:21 pmA really cool and almost hypnotic animation!

Unfortunately I don't know enough facts about relativistic effects around a blackhole.
I was impressed that the behavior of the "frozen" objects like the astronaut look correct. I could only imagine, that usualy from the perspective of the beholder we should be overtaken by debris... but they would slow down - or stuck in time too... theoretically...

Weird physics!

But just as interesting and nice looking effect without physical correctness you could let some debris rotate with the forground part of the accretion disk and some debris let overtake us... ? Just an idea... :o :)
Hi DocCharly65 (can i call you only Doc?) ;D

In the scale of the scene, the black hole have only 100 km of diameter, so is not so bigger. but if we traduce this to real scales, just the fact that you can see almost all the accretion disc, it means that this "little" black hole is so far from you, as we are from Mars. So yeah, we dont need to worry about the relativistic effects at this distances. a planetoid is also visible in the animation moving fast near the accretion disc, so, that should give you an idea about how far we are of the black hole. ;)
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: DocCharly65 on December 03, 2019, 09:11:50 am
Real scale rendering is in fact not easy ... I tried it some years ago and almost killed the whole scene (usually Terragen also crashed after some frames rendering) when I tried to render a 1:1 earth with an Enterprise in a correct orbit with the correct speed... all values about some thousand kms and kms/h -- that was really too much for Terragen (3.3 as I remember) Not any GI interpolation and nothing else helped against flickering and the camera path began to be a chaotic fractal itself when I tried to change to slow or stopping scenes...  ;D ;D ;D

by the time we get older, more patient and a little bit more experienced ;)

Not the first time I read the short form "Doc" -- that's ok :)
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on December 03, 2019, 01:29:27 pm
Quote from: DocCharly65 on December 03, 2019, 09:11:50 amby the time we get older, more patient and a little bit more experienced ;)

I liked that line ;) 
About the rest, i not tried animations at real scale/velocities yet, but for eg, another users like Hannes haved some successful in this...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on December 04, 2019, 01:13:15 pm
The debris looks better now, and it seems that everything is ready for another (final?) animation, BUT, before that, one last still image...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: WAS on December 04, 2019, 01:31:28 pm
Looks really nice. I have to say the HDRish tones on my main Samsung HD monitor dont look to good. They cause colour burning on the monitor (tones become flat and disconnected from gradient flows) but on my phone which is HDR they look amazing. My GPU isn't even outputting HDR on my PC so confused why it looks off.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on December 05, 2019, 01:17:09 pm
Quote from: WAS on December 04, 2019, 01:31:28 pmLooks really nice. I have to say the HDRish tones on my main Samsung HD monitor dont look to good. They cause colour burning on the monitor (tones become flat and disconnected from gradient flows) but on my phone which is HDR they look amazing. My GPU isn't even outputting HDR on my PC so confused why it looks off.
That's because this last image and animation, are not HDR enhanced :P
Check my 2nd older image and animation...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: WAS on December 05, 2019, 02:00:44 pm
Quote from: Ariel DK on December 05, 2019, 01:17:09 pm
Quote from: WAS on December 04, 2019, 01:31:28 pmLooks really nice. I have to say the HDRish tones on my main Samsung HD monitor dont look to good. They cause colour burning on the monitor (tones become flat and disconnected from gradient flows) but on my phone which is HDR they look amazing. My GPU isn't even outputting HDR on my PC so confused why it looks off.
That's because this last image and animation, are not HDR enhanced :P
Check my 2nd older image and animation...

Your HDR marked images aren't HDR? I thought I could read. I wasn't referring to the last image, I was specifically talking about the HDR ones and their effects across my monitors.

Latest image is nice but lackluster imo without HDR (maybe needs more colour variation). But HDR on my non-HDR monitor is a mess of burned colours and not cross compatible is what I'm saying (like other HDR images seem to be)
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on December 05, 2019, 08:49:46 pm
Quote from: WAS on December 05, 2019, 02:00:44 pmI wasn't referring to the last image, I was specifically talking about the HDR ones and their effects across my monitors.

Oh okey. relax, you definitely can read, is just that i thought that you was referring to that last images. sorry.
i have just one HDR TV monitor, but i not always test all my images in my TV. i gonna do it again for the final animation for sure.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: WAS on December 06, 2019, 05:09:49 am
Quote from: Ariel DK on December 05, 2019, 08:49:46 pm
Quote from: WAS on December 05, 2019, 02:00:44 pmI wasn't referring to the last image, I was specifically talking about the HDR ones and their effects across my monitors.

Oh okey. relax, you definitely can read, is just that i thought that you was referring to that last images. sorry.
i have just one HDR TV monitor, but i not always test all my images in my TV. i gonna do it again for the final animation for sure.


I was being more sarcastic lol

I'm curious though how HDR images are done when it comes to non HDR displays. Not very familiar with it. I
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on December 06, 2019, 10:01:52 am
Quote from: WAS on December 06, 2019, 05:09:49 amI was being more sarcastic lol
agh, i suspected but you catched me anyway! ::)

Quote from: WAS on December 06, 2019, 05:09:49 amI'm curious though how HDR images are done when it comes to non HDR displays. Not very familiar with it.
Trust me, when analize in PS, you can notice the difference...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on December 24, 2019, 01:00:34 pm
Finally, the PT version. I'm happy with this one for now. I gonna work in another shot from the accretion disc.
As criticism, i lost the flashes of light from the inner disk when i decreased the starburst sensibility, but it was too high anyway so, i gonna need to find an equilibrium here.
Thanks to Oshyan and all of you for your support. happy christmas everyone!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pcxMacGZTxsmM0l0D_jJHBFpgs0TZk9N
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: WAS on December 24, 2019, 02:21:55 pm
Quote from: Ariel DK on December 24, 2019, 01:00:34 pmFinally, the PT version. I'm happy with this one for now. I gonna work in another shot from the accretion disc.
As criticism, i lost the flashes of light from the inner disk when i decreased the starburst sensibility, but it was too high anyway so, i gonna need to find an equilibrium here.
Thanks to Oshyan and all of you for your support. happy christmas everyone!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pcxMacGZTxsmM0l0D_jJHBFpgs0TZk9N

That looks really well done. I wonder how all this chaos happened. Failed hyperdrive jump? Lol

My only suggestion, and the only thing that really grabs my attention is the spinning clouds like forms don't move. Some sort of variance or breakup in the animation would give it life. Probably would destroy render times though. Not sure.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on December 26, 2019, 10:57:26 am
Quote from: WAS on December 24, 2019, 02:21:55 pmThat looks really well done. I wonder how all this chaos happened. Failed hyperdrive jump? Lol

...
Haha, let's just say they just opened a portal to another universe where the "black hole" is much more than a non-famous Sith Lord, and there are new laws of physics that they still didn't know, to the point that his hyperdrive engine didn't even it works here... ;)

Quote from: WAS on December 24, 2019, 02:21:55 pm...

My only suggestion, and the only thing that really grabs my attention is the spinning clouds like forms don't move. Some sort of variance or breakup in the animation would give it life. Probably would destroy render times though. Not sure.
Are you meaning something like this? https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26496.0.html

In that case the accretion disc it was a simply animated vortex shader, but very difficult to control it. in my last scene i sacrificed that possibility, to gain more control by replacing the vortex shader by an image map. i did this trying to get more accurate look, and not so generic one. i'm sure i can make new tries in the future.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: WAS on December 26, 2019, 11:14:53 am
Quote from: Ariel DK on December 26, 2019, 10:57:26 amHaha, let's just say they just opened a portal to another universe where the "black hole" is much more than a non-famous Sith Lord, and there are new laws of physics that they still didn't know, to the point that his hyperdrive engine didn't even it works here...
Hahaha, oh. Well than. That's certainly unfortunate.


Quote from: Ariel DK on December 26, 2019, 10:57:26 amAre you meaning something like this? https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26496.0.html (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26496.0.html)

In that case the accretion disc it was a simply animated vortex shader, but very difficult to control it. in my last scene i sacrificed that possibility, to gain more control by replacing the vortex shader by an image map. i did this trying to get more accurate look, and not so generic one. i'm sure i can make new tries in the future.

Yeah similar to that. Thinking about how you have it setup now. You may be able to effect the soft zones of the Image map with a Surface Layers breakup, and maybe your original vortex setup to subtly change the look, like luminosity. While the shape does look better, it does somewhat look like some sort of solid object spinning, not light or energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Psuz7u5OI

In this animation it seems he/she is using a vortex, while also animating his base noise, and it looks pretty good for being so basic.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: DocCharly65 on January 02, 2020, 03:03:40 am
Quote from: Ariel DK on December 24, 2019, 01:00:34 pmFinally, the PT version. I'm happy with this one for now. I gonna work in another shot from the accretion disc.
As criticism, i lost the flashes of light from the inner disk when i decreased the starburst sensibility, but it was too high anyway so, i gonna need to find an equilibrium here.
Thanks to Oshyan and all of you for your support. happy christmas everyone!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pcxMacGZTxsmM0l0D_jJHBFpgs0TZk9N
Great result! Congrats! :)
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: WAS on January 02, 2020, 03:00:14 pm
Oh i forgot to mention, though you probably know. If you use your image map as a mask, and turn on the color for a surface layer, piped the image map surface, I am pretty sure you can than use the Breakup Shader to effect the soft areas of the image projection.
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on January 13, 2020, 04:40:51 pm
Quote from: WAS on January 02, 2020, 03:00:14 pmOh i forgot to mention, though you probably know. If you use your image map as a mask, and turn on the color for a surface layer, piped the image map surface, I am pretty sure you can than use the Breakup Shader to effect the soft areas of the image projection.
Indeed, this is already in the scene, but the effect is not to much noticeable...
Title: Re: Black Hole project revisited
Post by: Ariel DK on January 13, 2020, 04:42:02 pm
After the holidays, i'm ready to finish some pending works and scenes.
particularly i gonna make two more shots for this one, literally falling into the black hole... 8)