Newbie Chrome ball question

Started by insignet, January 07, 2013, 02:50:45 AM

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insignet

Hi all

I'm still fairly new to T2 hence the silly question. I use Lightwave and use Lighting Probe images ( chrome ball ) to help with the reflections etc in my scenes. I wondered if I can create these HDR chrome ball objects in T2.

TO test I added a sphere, gave the sphere a reflective shader and this is what i get. I'm trying to achieve a very reflective ball. I'm using the free version of T2, maybe this is accurate in terms of reflections, but it seems dark.

Thanks

Tangled-Universe

You can increase IOR from 1.33 to 100.

insignet

:) thanks. I thought IOR was for transparent objects its why I overlooked it! :-[

Tangled-Universe

You're welcome, my pleasure :)

Cheers,
Martin

insignet

Martin ( same Martin who presented the webinar over the weekend? )

If so thanks again... I enjoyed it, its why I'm here battling away with a chrome ball :)
I'm getting a strange artefact on the render. I would expect the ground reflection to have a gradual change not the hard colour transition that i pointed out '1'. Also the reflections seem to be aliased '2'. I've attached the tad also... maybe i'm not setting it correctly or its a result of the free version limits?

Tangled-Universe

Yes that would be me. Happy to hear you enjoyed it!

I have to think a bit about the first issue you mentioned.
That particular "band" looks funny.
I have a possible solution in my mind, but I'm not really sure and I can't remember the exact name of the setting anymore.
Both would probably only be confusing if I'd try explaining it.

About the second issue though, you could try the following:

1) you could start with setting reflection roughness to 0
2) the aliasing in the reflections could be two things. You can enable soft shadows in the sunlight node or improve the calculations of the reflections (see 3)
3) increase the "ray detail multiplier" inside your render node. This setting changes the detail in the micropolygons that are seen by the reflection rays. The multiplier multiplies the render detail setting from the renderer with the "ray detail multiplier" setting.
So, for example: if you render with detail 0.7 and "ray detail multiplier" @ 0.25 => 0.7 x 0.25 = 0.175.
In other words, the geometry/surface seen in the reflections is based on 4x lower quality than outside of the reflections. Simply put.
Therefore, the max number for the ray detail multiplier is 1.
(double click on the + symbol of the render node, then you should see the "render subdiv settings" node (grey) and inside that node increase the ray detail multiplier from 0.25 to 0.5, for starters)
You may understand now that whenever you render something with reflection that you 1) need sufficient render detail 2) enough ray detail multiplication, to get good results.

cyphyr

The Band is due to the GI prepass settings. Removing GI gets rid of it (simply select the Enviro light and de-activate it) but you may not want to do that. Try the same scene again but with some landscape and clutter in there, the effect may not be so visible.
I don't have a solution for the rough AA reflections.
cheers
Richard
www.richardfraservfx.com
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
/|\

Ryzen 9 5950X OC@4Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 4:13)

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: cyphyr on January 07, 2013, 08:00:30 AM
The Band is due to the GI prepass settings. Removing GI gets rid of it (simply select the Enviro light and de-activate it) but you may not want to do that. Try the same scene again but with some landscape and clutter in there, the effect may not be so visible.
I don't have a solution for the rough AA reflections.
cheers
Richard

I think the rough AA reflections are due to the combination of low render settings and the ray detail multiplier as I tried to explain.

I did know about the band being caused by GI, thanks for that :)
It would be a bit unexpected if prepass padding would work, as it's only a planar extension of the calculations and not spherical?
In other words: the calculations only extend to left/right om the image, but not backwards.
There's a setting for that in the render subdiv node, but it's only for shadows I believe and I also can't get to the name of it :/

insignet

Thanks for those tips... I got rid of the banding by turning off the Enviro tabs suggested.  Also looked at the aliased edges by turning up the Quality Detail in the render node to 1 ( max in free version ) this seemed to help. Still a little choppy towards the edges of the sphere, but i guess increasing further would remove the artefacts.

Thanks I'll continue to tinker :)

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: insignet on January 07, 2013, 08:45:41 AM
Thanks for those tips... I got rid of the banding by turning off the Enviro tabs suggested.  Also looked at the aliased edges by turning up the Quality Detail in the render node to 1 ( max in free version ) this seemed to help. Still a little choppy towards the edges of the sphere, but i guess increasing further would remove the artefacts.

Thanks I'll continue to tinker :)

Ok good to know this worked.

How about the "ray detail multiplier" setting I told you about? Tried that?

Rendering @ detail 1 will create a tremendous amount of polygons which will be a lot smaller than a pixel and thus take much longer to render.
Bear in mind that your reflections still render @ detail 0.25 if you don't change the ray detail multiplier.
If you set the multiplier to 1 then the detail of your rendered reflections match 1:1 with the detail setting of the renderer.
A detail of 0.7 often suffices.

insignet

I couldn't find the ray detail multiplier. I looked in the render node but couldn't see it...  :-[

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: insignet on January 07, 2013, 09:35:42 AM
I couldn't find the ray detail multiplier. I looked in the render node but couldn't see it...  :-[

In the node network click on the "renderers" tab/bookmark on the left.
The node network now focusses on 2 nodes, the "quick render" and "full render" nodes.

Suppose you're using the "full render" then double-click on the + symbol on the right side of the node.
You should see 4 grey nodes.
If you don't then move the grey nodes around, as sometimes they are right on top of each other.
Among the 4 nodes you should be able to find the "render subdiv settings" node.
Double click on it to open it and there you can find the "ray detail multiplier".

7 lines for 7 seconds of work, so don't be afraid of trying this :)

insignet

found it :) Yip it worked, smoothed out the aliased i set to 0.7. The only issue now is the shadow ( result of turning off the Enviro light to remove the banding) shadows are now solid black. I'll try to put a few other things in the scene to break up the banding.

cyphyr

#13
I imagine that the setup you using at the moment is basically to see out how it works and iron out any bugs that may come up in your workflow. (Are you really trying to create a scene with a gray featureless floor and a blank sky? :) )

However it may still be worthwhile trying a more complex scene, something closer to your final desired output. The variation in texture, surface detail and cloudy sky may well hide many of the faults your seeing with the setup now.

Also if your aiming for a final output of an environment map then un-tick cast shadows on the sphere. The shadows cast by the sphere will be of no use to you.

cheers

Richard
www.richardfraservfx.com
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
/|\

Ryzen 9 5950X OC@4Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 4:13)

insignet

Yeah... i tend to get confused when there's lots going on and loose focus on what i was trying to do. With T2 lots of numeric options / fields and for it to sink into my brain i have to go over it a few times :) I'm a simple fella