Aha gregtee...Add in the Render Layers being the key phrase here. Could I but afford the full deal I'd be gung ho on the multi pass, as t'was one of the main things I requested when features were being requested IIRC,...but my pension doesn't allow for that kind of cash out lay sadly. So till I can afford the big app I think I'll just aim a wee bit lower and try and do it all in TG2 but I do get where you're coming from. Back in the Imagine3D days we had a method where we could do multi pass renders using 'States', an Imagine3D feature where all the 'passes' could be embedded in all the objects texture info and it was a simply matter of turning off all the states except for say the beauty , specular , fill light, etc. pass. It is a superior work flow and some day I'll have it available. It was the one thing that almost had me buying Vue but TG2-3's over all quality and amazingly helpful user base for learning kept me here...and all the cool folks as well..