Climategate: What They Aren't Telling You!

[AP]

http://youtu.be/T2J8zEJHIg8

[Kadri]

So you mean we are not changing our environment?

[Upon Infinity]

Every time I hear a politician mention man-made climate change, all I hear are WMD in Iraq and if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  It's always BS and lies designed to benefit the few at the expense of the many.  And for some reason, the people who are telling us all we need to consume less, are always the people who consume the most.

[Kadri]

I don't give a damn what politicians says.
Science itself isn't foolproof but the best you can follow what we have and they say climate change is real.
I rather listen to them and be wrong then to politicians.

[TheBadger]

I dont know either way.
I think for sure we are not treating the world very well over all, and there is sure to be negative consequences for that.

But what really worries me is that, the only solutions the proponents of global warming offer is to make me poor(er).

I mean really, look at the environmentalist community and you will see some real bipolar disorder. First we need to get rid of all oil and use solar and wind (so I pay nearly 4 dollars a gallon). But then we can't use wind because it kills birds (which is hilarious because most environmentalist love cats).
Then we cant use solar because it takes up too much space and also kills animals. Also making solar panels is really really bad for the environment. (Nuclear works but is scary)

Of course its a problem when its cloudy or there is little to no wind.

Anyway, the only fix seems to be to heat my house in the winter by burning my paycheck. Which is fine, because it pays in dollars and those are worthless anyway...So maybe everything will work out after all? 

[Dune]

Better be sure than sorry, I'd say, no matter how vague the scientific 'evidence'. Before you know there might be an unforeseen pivot point and things turn dramatic.
By the way; you US citizens are lucky with your (subsidized) gas price, we pay nearly 9 dollars per gallon 

[Upon Infinity]

I don't give a damn what politicians says.
Science itself isn't foolproof but the best you can follow what we have and they say climate change is real.
I rather listen to them and be wrong then to politicians.

I'm not sure what science you're referring to, at least one scientist, Richard Lindzen, professor of atmospheric physics at MIT, seems not to think so.  But even if you accept that climate-change is real (and I don't [the very word "climate", itself, means change]), is it the cause of humans or, rather, the sun cycles, or something else.  The world has been much, much hotter, on average, than it is now.  It was hotter when dinosaurs roamed the earth.  It was even hotter during the middle ages, long before the industrial revolution.

Besides which, when I was growing up, the big threat hanging over our heads was that we were headed to a new ice age, that was going to wipe out humanity.  So, did we avoid the ice age?  It's no longer a threat?  Of course, nobody ever talks about that anymore.

Also, the entire rain forest in Brazil wasn't going to exist by the year 2000.  And today, the rain forest is still going strong.  There are even tribes that live there that have yet to have contact with civilization.

I'm all for reducing my impact on the environment around me, just as long as I'm not forced to do so with a gun to my head collecting taxes for Al Gore and his church of pseudo-climatology, by the same people who exploded all those nuclear bombs in the upper atmosphere.

But I do hope that everyone who buys into this stuff are vegetarians (I am, BTW), as the largest single producer of "green house gases" is the meat and cattle industry.

I'm just thankful science doesn't work by either consensus or democracy.  Otherwise, the world would still be flat.

[Dune]

You're right. The main problem we face now (as opposed to the Middle Ages or Dino-Age) that we have so many people roaming our planet. They all want food and cars and luxury. The latter is keeping the economy going (production, production, production, growth, growth, growth, making more junk and plastic toys, more offices, more factories, more trains, more lorries, more ships, more flying....), but is it the best way to organize a sustainable world society, I think not. But what is?
I just read about insects being a very efficient protein supplier, and immediately got the vision of giant flies in paddocks, with steak-shaped thoraxes 

[archonforest]

We had here in Denmark couple of years ago a conference about Global warming...etc. Well on the same day we had a huge amount of snow and some -10C degree. Since then it just colder and colder here
Sounds like this global warming is just crap...it is just another way to tell people that how dangerous is the environment...etc. If you have enough of this you will render people to be inactive and quiet. And sure there are groups out there who want this...

[Kadri]

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence

Archonforest please look here where the 
"Do a few extra cold or snowy winters in your hometown mean that climate change is not happening?" question is answered.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basics/facts.html

It is interesting that the naysayers are from the opposite politic side.
This isn't about politics or how cheap or expensive we live.
It is a fundamental problem if we continue to live at all in the form we know today.
If you want to believe what the lobby of companies like BP want you to believe go on.
This subject isn't an easy one in that you 20-30 years later can say "sorry i was wrong".
But as Ulco said differently if we are wrong you would only loose some money.

[Kadri]

It reminds me every time about evolution.
The only ones who oppose it are the religious and-or ignorant ones.
Most people don't know still what science is and how it works unfortunately.

[archonforest]

"Do a few extra cold or snowy winters in your hometown mean that climate change is not happening?" question is answered.

It was a meeting about Global warming...and since then it is just colder. It is a climate change for sure but here where I live the Global warming is just out of reality. I would expect something warmer than we have now. I remember the ice cold air coming from the North-pole...therefore I said the Global warming is not that real here...

[TheBadger]

But Kadri,
If we spend hundreds of billions of dollars (perhaps even trillions) and still cant solve the problem. Then it is better to not spend the money. Better to loose coast line and still be able to afford a boat, than to loose  coastline and drown.

I still have have not heard one idea that will *fix the problem* other than massive depopulation that is.

[archonforest]

To get all cars running on water engines or electric...etc might help but we got some people(with serious money from the oil business) on the way to do this...

Btw I forgot to mention the Tesla Coil...that is a solution for all the planet. It can create free electricity for all for free but some people did not liked the idea. Therefore his lab was burned to the ground and he died as a very poor man almost unknown.

So there are solutions but they are suppressed to the max. There is an old maxim I really like. If you try to handle something and it going nowhere then u handling the wrong thing. The shit we see here are created purposely and kept like that. We got many many amazing inventions on this planet but where they are? Wish to ask some Governments and way above but guess they won;t answer me hehehe...

[Kadri]

Michael i don't know what the best solution is but not listening to science and denying it only because of a politician you don't like is absurd.
Screw all of the politicians go and read further. Nearly all scientist says the same today.

I could make a website in that i would say " I don't like the electrons in the atom. Chemistry should be explained differently"
I could even make a foolish "Free chemistry from the electrons" Radio.
And the funny thing is i actually really believe that there are some wrong things regarding electrons in science.
But why don't i say that and make such a website?
Because i have no proof and everything what is known says the opposite.
So until i have or see somewhere proofing what i think i will shut my mouth and wait.
Otherwise i would be like the other fools around the web.
The internet made knowledge very accessible to people.
But unfortunately it made many stupid people accessible too.

That guy in the video lost me when he said that simulation isn't science for example.
It is used in many ways and to variable results.
It is another powerful new tool for science.
And how to use it , or the results it gives are debated already in science and philosophy.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/simulations-science/    for example.
Of course you have to see if the simulation shows resemblance to our real world.
But what he says in the video is something like
"Mathematics isn't science you have to test it on reality"
he actually don't know what science is...DOH!

The interesting thing is we use Terragen.
Not a simulation in that way per see but i think you know what i mean.