Excavating the Deep Cut

Started by sboerner, January 21, 2020, 04:32:19 PM

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Hannes

This is absolutely amazing, Steve! So many details!!
However I have the impression, that the lighting looks a bit flat. Are there additional lightsources?


sboerner

Thanks, guys!

There is a second sun, very weak, 0.2 brightness (if I remember right), to fill in the shadows slightly. And in post I brought the highlights down to emphasize the cloudy sky. So the flat lighting is intentional, though I may have overdone it slightly. Duly noted!

Hannes

Just my thoughts, I hope you don't mind: I have the impression, that increasing the environment light's strength looks better and more natural than adding additional lightsources, when you're rendering with the legacy renderer.
However, a killer image!!

sboerner

Not at all! This is rendered with the path tracer, however. The environment light would not have the same effect, correct?

The scene is a lighting challenge because of the deep, deep shadow cast by the left wall of the cut. Freely changing the orientation of the sun is not an option because I want it to be historically accurate. The channel is on a N-S axis, facing south, so you will either get a heavy shadow on either side or the sun shining directly into the camera. I went for a late-morning sun in early summer to minimize the shadow, but it still needed some help or the poor fellows under the wall just disappeared.

Add to that the heavy overcast and several layers of dust clouds . . . this was not a pleasant place to work, so my goal was to make the atmosphere look thick and oppressive . . . almost like a storm is about to break.

Dune

Stunning work! I admire the amount of research and asset production you do before being able to render a final image. I must agree with Hannes, though understanding your vision. Maybe not lighting up certain areas but darkening others (local secondary cloud out of view) may have a good effect, turning it into a more gloomy working area.
The GI doesn't have effect when path tracing, afaik. so you could use the camera's exposure to lighten up certain areas. Or burn a hole in the sky for local lighting up.

I also look forward to seeing what you're up to next...

Hannes

Quote from: Dune on June 20, 2020, 02:01:40 AMThe GI doesn't have effect when path tracing, afaik
GI does, but increasing the environment light's strength doesn't, when path tracing.

So, I'd love to see this scene rendered with the legacy renderer, and with a stronger environment light instead of additional lightsources. Even though this is kind of cheating as well, it might be worth a try.

Dune

Huh? This is GI, isn't it? That is what I meant, increasing this won't be taken into account by the path tracer. What GI do you mean?

Hannes

I meant that the path tracer uses some sort of (brute force-) GI, and the only thing, you can't do is change the environment light's value. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but that's the way I understood it.

Dune

We're on the same level, as that's what I understand too. I just used a local (out of sight) slightly illuminated cloud hung above my scene to lighten up the shadows a tad in PT. Could have used a plane too, but cloud it became.

Hannes

Yes, that should work as well.
I did something similar in my King Croc image.

sboerner

As far as I know the environment light has no effect with the path tracer -- GI is provided by secondary rays. So instead of a fill light (either direct or indirect) maybe the best way to provide more shadow detail would be to increase the max ray depth from 5 to something higher. I haven't messed with this yet, and it will be interesting to see what difference that makes in render time. I'll disable the second sun and will run some tests to see what happens.

You're probably responding to some of the changes I made in post, too. I'm a long-time print guy and my instinct is to open up shadows (where you always get some dot gain on press) and reduce highlights (to make sure there is a dot). I'll try to use a lighter touch.

I do appreciate the feedback. When all is said and done I'm going to trust my own eye. But you two have produced many great images so I know I'd better listen!

Hannes

Thanks for your kind words, Steve! :)  Looking forwards to your next steps.

WAS

Albedo of clouds plays a big role in your overcast shadows (whiter clouds "capture" more light and less shadows to muddle actual object shaodws). Also, upping your soft clip effect may help as well. Things to consider.

sboerner

Interesting. One of the main problems with this scene is maintaining the density of the cloud cover. If the landscape is properly exposed the clouds are almost completely blown out. Are you suggesting that I should *decrease* the albedo of the cloud cover, to make the clouds darker to begin with?

The renderings are 32-bit exr, so changing soft clip shouldn't have any effect.