Upgrade Question

[WHD3]

Hi All,

I have used TG.9 for years now as a licensed user and I'm planning to upgrade to TG2 in a day or so. I have primarily used TG to generate backgrounds for use in my main 3D application or for PS or AE composites. I am not the scripting type and use only Macs so animation in TG has never really been a serious consideration until now. While I currently have no plans to use TG2 for animation I may want the option in the future if it is functional in a way that I would find user friendly. I am attempting to decide what version to purchase. With or without animation?

That said, I have not been able to find anything that clearly demonstrates how one can animate the camera in TG2. Does one move from point to point in POV using the 3d viewer and set key frames or does this require scripting or importing external paths. Do I need to use nodes , the primary reason I delayed purchasing this version of TG . Not really a node person.

In my other applications I simply activate animation capability in the time line and drag my camera in a orthographic view from point to point and then go back and finesse the move with bezier handles and a function curve editor. Is something like this possible in the animation version? I need to know that animating is something that I will be comfortable with in TG2 or I'm wasting $100.00 on a feature that I'll never use.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Bill

[rcallicotte]

You wouldn't be wasting money, since after the initial version goes to 1.0 (sometime this Spring, I would guess) the price will go up.  Another reason you wouldn't be wasting money, and probably the most significant, is that if you buy the Deep-Animation version now, all of the updates for TG2 will be free for you.  Planetside has made it clear it will make some significant changes to the animation module for those who purchase this version. 

Besides, it's a very cool program for the money.  By the time of the next update and especially after this goes gold, you will have learned enough to create some pretty cool art.

[WHD3]

Hi Calico,

From your reply I seem to have been misunderstood.

I was only trying to determine if I should invest in the Deep or Deep with animation versions of TG2. TG  is a great program and a bargain even at twice the cost. I'm just not sure that I'll use the animation features if they don't function in a fairly standardized way. I'm trying to gather information to determine how they work and if I'm likely to use the animation and is it worth it for me personally for the additional cost above the regular deep version. There seems to be very little documentation on animation functions for me to make this call. I just prefer not to spend the extra money for a feature set that I may never use.

My question was never intended to be a critique of the value of TG as a program. I apologize if I was not clear.

Bill

[rcallicotte]

Oh, sorry.

Planetside has stated that there will be greater modifications and greater improvements to the animation module for those who own the Deep Animation version of TG2.  This will come after the first release.  Maybe Oshyan can tell you more, but I'm pretty sure since Planetside's audience is the professional effects industry that there will be plenty of familiarity in the animation controls to those who work in that industry.  This is an assumption only, as far as specifics, but I believe Planetside's animation controls will probably work as expected in the movie industry, for example.

[Cyber-Angel]

I wouldn't expect to many details of specifics in any case as releasing to many details to soon (If the information you require is known to the developers, which it might not be at this stage) would at the vary least not be sound business practice as you alert your competitors to as under developed features meaning they can do some thing like it them selves and thus as a company your (Meaning Planetside in this case) advantage becomes meaningless. The second consideration here is that by announcing planned feature/s to early you risk annoying your customer base if that feature is delayed due to technical issues or can not be included say because it was planned to implemented but attempts to do so caused reliability problems else where in the software, there are many unwritten rules in the business world and the two most important to remember are "Don't Fix Your Numbers" and "Don't Lie to your Customers".

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel               

[MooseDog]

...Does one move from point to point in POV using the 3d viewer and set key frames or does this require scripting or importing external paths. ...

option (a) you mentioned is currently how it works.  you can though import a certain variety of motion file called a "chan" file as a motion path for the camera.  afaik, either plug-ins or scripting is required to get this out of your 3d app.

navigation w/in tg2 is, atm, not at all standard.  but it still is barely an alpha release.  the developers have promised big changes over the transition to beta and then final 1.0  you place yer bets and you takes yer chances  .

[Mr_Lamppost]

I have the Deep + Animation version; I have made very limited use of the animation functions because of the extended render times.  The animation and I assume it will be the same in the upcoming initial release is a bit hit and miss but can give reasonable results if you are prepared to persevere with it. Virtually every parameter can be animated, not just the camera: There is a known problem with populations at the moment. 

Camera movement is easy to achieve but difficult to fine tune, which is why I say the animation system is a bit Hit and Miss.   The way it works just now is that you move to the desired point along your time line, use the 3D preview to position the camera and set a Key Frame. The interpolation is completely automatic so you have st step through your animation, moving the camera where miscarry and adding further Key Frames.  This can be a frustrating process but persistence is rewarded. 

So far there has been very little experimentation with animation but I imagine this will change once rendering becomes faster; look how far we have come with still images over the last year. 

I would definitely recommend taking advantage of the reduced Pre-purchase price and get the animation module now.  As previously stated improvements are in the pipeline and these are included in the price. 

[WHD3]

Hi All,

OK. I think that I'm beginning to understand what the situation is with the TG animation version. I was under the impression that at this stage the animation version was fully functional but not fully refined. What I'm gathering now is that it is still a work in progress and at least for the moment generally functions much the same as the prior version of TG did.

I had been under the impression that the current (Paid Version) had a fully functional GUI of some sort to animate things that the Tech Preview did not have. It sounds like the Tech Preview version is
The same only some features are not fully active or have a lesser capacity without a key as was the difference with the pre-2 versions of TG.

I just noticed as I write this a new reply that has added a bit more light to my question.

[quote author=Mr_Lamppost  
" The way it works just now is that you move to the desired point along your time line, use the 3D preview to position the camera and set a Key Frame. The interpolation is completely automatic so you have st step through your animation, moving the camera where miscarry and adding further Key Frames.  This can be a frustrating process but persistence is rewarded. "

I think this is the detail that I have been looking for to finalize my decision. If I can do some level of animation even primitive work without being forced to use scripting language or nodes it makes the animation version much more appealing to me since I personally find neither scripting nor nodes very intuative. I can tolerate them in small doses but not at as a necessity to get things done.

Thank you to everyone who has responded. I appreciate all the input. I think I'm sold on the version with the animation module.

Bill

[Oshyan]

Use of animation functions is very easy, but as Lamppost said it's getting things refined that is more difficult. Setting 1 or more keyframes for virtually any parameter is possible and quite simple, however there is currently no ability to easily modify keyframe positions or parameters, much less motion curves, etc. These are the kinds of things we plan to add as we work to complete the animation module after TG2 is released. For now you can do effective basic animation of almost any parameter, and if you have a workflow to export CHAN format data from an external application you can create more sophisticated movements. The .tgd data format is also XML human readible so you can directly input keyframe values if you wish, although it seems clear that level of getting your hands dirty isn't desirable for you (and I can't blame you! ).

- Oshyan